Brand new door hard to close......man screams out loud.....news at 11

[Mark Bolton]

I think it was completed unit fit tolerances. Not having to use or make them,didn't read much of it. Don't know either who
was dictating. I remember being amused at the responses from those manufacturing the units saying it would be impossible to meet the proposed new standards. I did once work for a company that had a door unit department and it was poorly managed. I had to make some elliptical casing once for a "custom" unit. Before Micron type machines you could spend most of a day making something like that on a shaper. About an hour after it was done the foreman brought it
back. It had been cut too short and he told me to make another set in a most casual manner. I complained bitterly and he
said something like "well, he's learning ". I replied YOU LEARN SOMETHING LIKE BY BEING TAUGHT. NOT BY TRIAL AND
ERROR".

Hah, That gave me a chuckle.

No idea about the spec's. I have a feeling the main spec' is how many you can get out the door and we'll deal with the rest later.

The salesman for the distributor I had the problems with was in my shop for at least three hours and of course to my face agreed completely that the doors were beyond sub-par but I could tell by his tone that this is just what we are going to have to deal with. Im talking major (in my opinion) splits in the veneer, one door had a crack in the core that came right through the veneer about 5" down the latch stile. Several doors were clearly laid up so not flat that when they (chile) ran them through the widebelt they blew all but a whisper of the veneer off the corners of the doors. A couple were blown clear through to the core right off the truck. You could see how the cores had racked perhaps a degree or two in the clamps. Cracks in the panel glue ups. Several doors had deep/shallow hinge mortises and as I mentioned blowouts at the lock bore. It was a major disaster and this was all from a supplier who had, to date, always delivered doors that a quick sanding spray, and clear, were on the job.

The job had about 30 doors and it was easily a month and a half and I think 3-5 shipments of replacements by the time we had 30 doors that again, I was not happy with, but had to say were good enough to install.

It was brutal.

A job that should have been wrapped up in about 10 days went on for probably 50.

Having never had much trouble with these commodity doors we would sand them and move them to finish and within a second of spraying the stain the problems would pop out. If I had the photos I'd post some but I just setup a new computer and when I saw them in the backup I just deleted them to try to purge the memory from my data bank LOL.

[Peter Quinn]

Reliabuilt would be one. But to be fair, nearly every door distributor offers simple steel entry doors at a very low price point. I can purchase a simple entry door from my distributor for slightly under 190.00 and its not bad.

I cant speak for Peter and Sam's situation but for me I think these issues come in a wave when the distributor/manufacturers get over extended and things get out of spec. As has been stated, at least the distributors I have been to, these doors are not milled on anything close to a CNC. They are mortised on a door station like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsJ2iDgc3H4 If anything on that machine gets out of spec several hundred doors can go out before it ever gets back to the distributor.

Interior doors are hung even more crudely than that.

There are more automated setups but I have never seen one.

Its definitely true that this has to get back to the vendor/supplier but unfortunately I think as Sam stated, all too often you just have to do your best to get it done and even though you may pass along some harsh words to the supplier the next time you see them I will bet it never makes it very far up the chain.

In my last nightmare I received a phone call from the owner of the door distributor who actually works on the shop floor every day and he basically told me that the garbage he is being sent from south america is very difficult to deal with but, just as me, he has to keep production moving.

Ive long wondered when we will hit the tipping point and people will start to get fed up but even in these scenario's the pain often times never makes it to the homeowner because the contractor is dealing with all the headaches and the bottom line is the sale is still made.

Long been brewing, who knows where it will head.

I said I couldn't mention the manufacturer...but apparently Mark can because its not his door in question. Interesting video, I see those guys on a pneumatic assembly bench, but where do the parts come from? I'm imagining some automated jamb routing process, maybe a crude single purpose CNC line to make rabbits in jamb legs, route hinge and hardware pockets, notch the door edge. Or maybe its more basic than that? With the steel door there is no pocket, just a straight notch, charming lack of quality. Video says they can assemble a steel door in 3 minutes....I'd guess they spent half that time on the one I got. Hope they didn't get a performance bonus that day.

For comparison, used to take me and one other guy 30 minutes to route hinge pockets in prepared jamb legs, mount hinges, verify fit, brace the bottom. Glazing would be easily 1 hour per unit, TDL. Cutting glass stops, maybe 30 minutes. Full hardware prep, maybe 20-30 minutes (dead bolt, standard tube lock, latch plate), longer of mortise lock). The only thing we could get done in 3 minutes was to get a cup of coffee at 10 o'clock break!

Honestly, I would easily have paid $40 more from my own pocket to have the door hung correctly. Do they offer that? To the lumber yard clerk "How much for a CORRECTLY pre hung?" Its like upgrading your plane ticket to business class!

[Larry Edgerton]

Although I appreciate Jacks sentiment, those days are gone around here. That is the way I ran my business until the money dried up. I have many jobs out there I am very proud of, but not so much in the last few years. The money is just not there. I am very happy for Jack that he is in a position to be able to draw that line, but that is not always possible as Mark has pointed out, reality gets in the way, and food/shelter are kind of important.

Peter, I feel your pain. I too get so angry at companies that have many times more in machinery than I do, machinery that is capable of very precise work, but through a lack of caring do not keep their setups close enough to put out a good product. I hung some steel doors in a garagemahal project I am working on last week, and had the same frustrating experience. Code requires that the doors be steel, so what do you do? Junk!

Larry

[Phil Thien]

Honestly, I would easily have paid $40 more from my own pocket to have the door hung correctly. Do they offer that? To the lumber yard clerk "How much for a CORRECTLY pre hung?" Its like upgrading your plane ticket to business class!

The last steel door I hung was about two years ago, and it was done in under an hour and worked perfectly. I can't imagine the frustration I'd feel if the door was manufactured incorrectly. And double that if I couldn't exchange for a properly made door because they were all the same.

Ugh, you guys in the trades have my sympathies.

[Peter Quinn]

Update. Its swinging like a $10K entryway! I had to dowel the hinge screw holes, lower the door hinge mortises by 3/32", and pack out the routed too deep at the factory jamb mortises. They didn't just route them too deep...its was a three bears situation.....top mortise was a little too deep, middle was a little deeper, bottom was WAY too deep, so the jamb was in level and plumb but the door appeared to pitch down at the sill towards the lock side. Brillant. Add to that the hinges were not located correctly front to back, meaning they weren't the same depth, which made the door appear twisted in the frame and not close agains the weather strip in the upper right corner, lock side. On a steel door there is not mortise bottom, not possible the way the steel wraps the wood edge. So the hinges have little fingers that you push against the door for alignment. How hard is it to get that right? Add it all up....terrible assembly quality. Things that could easily have been done better with the same materials, just rotten.

So if you buy one of these clunkers.....be advised and prepared to spend and hour or so performing a reassembly. They can be made to work. And if you pay somebody to put one of these in and they tell you "They are supposed to be hard to close and rub..they all do that now...." find another guy, don't accept that low level of performance, its not normal nor acceptable.