Opinion of the Powermatic 3 or 5 hp shaper please

[David Kumm]

Get a powerfeeder. Shapers shouldn't be sold without them. Dave

[ian maybury]

Shapers are quite tough in my (early stages) experience to get a good handle on from books. This is often quoted as the best available (UK originating) safe/good practice guide: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Spindle-Moul.../dp/0854420312

In reality it seems very much as though there's a few situations where the risk is quite subtle - stuff like working off ring fences, tenoning and the like. Meaning that there's little substitute for at minimum gaining a good intuitive understanding of what's going on in terms of forces etc in a given situation, and ideally for getting good hands on instruction from an experienced, safe and clear thinking user. Many may be experienced, but don't necessarily fall into both of the latter categories.

One basic issue is that there's a gazillion safety devices out there, but it isn't always clear what to buy when on a limited budget and with limited experience....

[Justin Ludwig]

Read read and read some more on shapers. Watch videos. I'm extremely new to shapers as I've only had one for 1.5 years. As David said, get a power feeder. There's a lot of different methods for using shapers and their fences. The only thing I use my fence system for is dust collection and as a stop or cutting tenons. I reference everything off the miter slot and use outboard fences with a power feeder. Again, it depends on how you intend to use it.

This forum has a TON of great info. Just search.

[Mike Cutler]

Dan

Congrat's on your new shaper. I think you're really going to like it.
PowerMatic doesn't make "hunks of crap". They never have. A lot of folks are put off by the initial price, but to each their own. They're quality machines.
The power feeder will be necessary for production. It makes everything smoother and easier, and of course safer. If you've been running your stock through a router table, you shouldn't have much trouble coming up to speed with a shaper.
It's a machine that can intimidate people. There's a lot of spinning metal exposed. Treat it with respect,keep your hands out of the area of the cutter head, and you should be on your way.
After not having run a shaper for many, many years, when I fired up the one I bought recently, I remembered why I always liked them. Personally, I think they're safer than router tables.

[Peter Quinn]

There is no room in my 21' x 27' shop for multiple shapers. The original question was intended to determine if the PM shaper was a decent machine or a 650 lb hunk of crap.
No one has called it crap. This is comforting. And the difference between 3 and 5 horses was $200, not enough to even think about.
The inherent danger in shaper use is a real concern for me. The local cabinetmaker that has been at it since the early 70's lost an entire finger about 5 years ago to one of his shapers. That was a bit sobering (His only advice concerning a shaper purchase was 1 1/4" spindle and dont bother with 3 horse, get at least 5). I want to know everything there is to know about shaper safety practices before I think about plugging it in. Any feedback in this regard would be greatly appreciated.

Always kill power to the machine physically before changing cutters. This can mean a drum switch, a knife switch, unplugging it...do not trust a magnetic starter. This is basic for any machine, but for a shaper there is a lot of cutter in play, don't want any accidental starts. Manual disconnect. Always check all setups at least twice before pressing go. Are fences aligned properly? Spin the spindle...does it spin free, is there enough clearance between it and the fences and hood? Shaper fences can be split to work like a jointer unlike most router tables that simply don't have the power to take a full height pass plus a 1/16" of extra material. The jointing pass is part of what makes a shaper a better tool than a router. You have to make sure the out feed fence will allow the work to pass, that its set parallel to the minor diameter of the cut. You don't want a workpiece particularly with a feeder pushing it hanging up on the out feed fence and getting turned sideways and pushed into the opening. DAMHIK!

Always minimize the opening between fences, keeps weird stuff from happening as much as possible. Always make sure you understand what direction your cutter is spinning, what direction your work is moving, and what is controlling the stock. In a normal counter rotation cut (cutter and work are moving in opposite directions) its very much like a router table. But a shaper with feeder is capable of being reversed, cutter can be reversed and you can run the cutter and work in the same direction...or climb cut. Its the same principle as the baseball pitching machine.....so don't do it if you don't understand it and don't ever do it free hand. I always jog my cutter on and off quickly to assure that I have in fact tightened it securely and that it is spinning in the direction I intended.

I like to use a feeder for every operation where it is feasible. This includes pattern shaping curves when possible.

When doing end grain work make certain your work cannot get sucked into the fence opening. With a router its rather fool proof...there is a bearing, the opening is small relative to most rails, hard to miss. With a shaper spinning a 4-5" cutter, you could easily do it wrong and suck in a narrow rail. So don't. Lots of ways to handle this...coping sleds, continuous fence, Aigner fence, bearings in the stack just like a router or a solid rub collar, clamp the work to a t square. What you choose is up to you, as a shaper operator a lot more of the particulars of a given set up are on you. So take a close look at each new set up and think about what path the stock will take, think about where your hands are relative to the cutters, think about the force applied by those cutters (out and backwards in a normal counter rotation cut) and how you intend to resist them. Never hand feed small parts, you cannot resist the power of a shaper like you might a router, it can suck work in and your hands with it. Work carefully and respect the basic rules and the shaper is a safe tool to use, possibly your best weapon. It can accurately dimension FF parts and leave finished edges, make doors, moldings, pattern shaping, rabbits, dados, tenons, etc. With a little thought and practice a single shaper can crank out 5 piece doors in a small shop withe relative ease. Spend time on careful set ups the first time, make gauge blocks and set up aids to get back to your settings quickly, buy good cutters of consistent diameter and change over will be a breeze. No reason for a one man shop to blow thousands on a multi shaper set up to make doors.....I did of course, but there was no reason for it!

[Rod Sheridan]

There is no room in my 21' x 27' shop for multiple shapers. The original question was intended to determine if the PM shaper was a decent machine or a 650 lb hunk of crap.
No one has called it crap. This is comforting. And the difference between 3 and 5 horses was $200, not enough to even think about.
The inherent danger in shaper use is a real concern for me. The local cabinetmaker that has been at it since the early 70's lost an entire finger about 5 years ago to one of his shapers. That was a bit sobering (His only advice concerning a shaper purchase was 1 1/4" spindle and dont bother with 3 horse, get at least 5). I want to know everything there is to know about shaper safety practices before I think about plugging it in. Any feedback in this regard would be greatly appreciated.

Hi, safety is important.

The only up to date book I've found on shapers is

The Spindle Molder Handbookhttp://www.amazon.ca/Spindle-Moulder.../dp/0854421505

The other books I've purchased have been decades out of date on cutters and machine safety issues.

Regards, Rod.


The only up to date book on s

[Dan Chouinard]

Finally had time to un-crate the shaper yesterday. Holy moses its a beast. Had just knifed the cardboard open when a friend stopped by shop for a visit. I wanted to lighten the machine before trying to move it and he suggested we unbolt and remove table top. Just 6 bolt, great. Removed bolts and attempted to lift top off machine only to discover that internals where also fixed to the top. Aborted that idea, lowered the casters and rolled machine off pallet and down make-shift ramp to shop floor. Easy beans rolling machine to desired location.
My concern is that the failed attempt to remove the top did some sort of damage/misalignment to the internals. Since I am a first time shaper owner not sure if this is a legit concern. What should I look for before proceeding?

[Bill Orbine]

Pretty much everything except electronics is bolted to under the table top. Motor and quill/spindle. You should be OK. At best, when bolting the table back down, align it with the paint lines (if any) that you broke when attempting to remove the top. Finally, you didn't affect the "precision" of the machine like it is with table saws (aligning top slot w/ blade).

[Dan Chouinard]

Thanks Rod for the recommending the spindle moulder handbook. It arrived today and look forward to diving into it. Looks to be chock full of useful info.

[Peter Quinn]

Congrats on the machine. I like the spindle moulder handbook, its a good one. But the Lonnie Byrd book isn't a bad one either. Its full of decent if older ideas for successful and safe shaping. I still use his panel hood design on my minimax for a few panel raisers, dust capture on MDF panels is the best I've seen. The book is full of simple fences and guides you can make as opposed to loads of anodized aluminum treasures you can buy from some European company, but its lessons are not invalid IMO, worth a review considering the meager asking price.

[Mike Heidrick]

True Cabinet saws have everything attached to the base not table.
Id go straight to a 1hp feeder and skip the much lighter weight 1/2hp feeder.
Watch for shims on your table if you remove it.

[Mark Bolton]

The bottom line with safety in what seems like your situation is to allocate another 1200-1400 to a feeder and with a shop made coping sled your hands should be no where near a cutter at any point. Raising narrow panels may be an exception but can still be done safely AND fast (not having to built specific fixtures).

[Rob Damon]

Shaper cutters are expensive, so when I got my PM2700, I also ordered the 1/2" router bit spindle for it. That way I can still use some of the larger unique router bits on it on the single/small projects.

[Jim Hager]

Congratulations on your first shaper, you will love it. I too started out using a rt to build doors and when I bought my first shaper I really learned what they were all about. I now own 5 each dedicated to an individual purpose. Three of them are imports, one a Grizzly and a Reliant, the other an Enlon with a sliding table. The other 2 are Delta's. I raise panels and do stick on the deltas with the Enlon doing my cope cut, the Reliant doing the door edge after assembly and the Grizzly doing the trim cut to make arched panels. I have three of them equipped with power feeders for making stick, door edges and panels. The other two are hand fed. A 3hp has plenty of power for running door parts using the Freeborn 3/4" bore cutters. I've made thousands of doors now with those cutters and have never had any problems with power. My advice on cutters is get good ones. I've bought cheaper stuff than I use and they just don't do the job. Freeborn is a great place to look for cutters, they have the larger bore cutters that I'd love to have if I had large spindles for all my shapers. The larger the tool diameter the better the cut will be.

As far as safety goes, RESPECT the shaper. Learn it's functions and follow established practices. Any time you do any freehand shaping be certain to use the starter pin. I have one of mine set up to do pattern shaping and it does have a starter in that never leaves the table. It does not have a fence attached but I do have dust collection rigged up. If you are running only one shaper be very mindful of the direction the cutter has to turn and the direction the material has to be fed. The shaper will snatch a piece out of your hand in an instant if climb fed. If you have the means I'd highly suggest a power feeder. I use the Delta 1/4 hp feeder and some I have are Grizzly. I see no difference in the two brands other than color. When you can use a feeder, please do. Running stick, door edges and square raised panels are all operations that you can use a feeder. Making cope cuts should be done with a sled. Either make or purchase one. My enlon shaper has a sliding table to run cope so I don't use a sled but have in the past. I'd recommend looking at some of the Weaver fixtures for making doors and see if there are some things there you can fit into the budget. While there look at their fixture for making door arches and panels. They are a very necessary part of my methods of making doors. Weaver sells the shapers too but they also provide lots of handy dodads for making doors besides the shaper. You'll also want to get a good collection of follower bearings for doing pattern shaping. Pretty much one for every cutter diameter you have. Also pick up a supply of thin shims for setting the height on your cope and stick cutters. A large key to a good shaper is the fence. My delta shapers have a great fence. Easy to adjust in almost every way. Import shapers have notoriously poor fences, it's good you ordered the PM. I've never used a pm shaper so I don't really know about it's fence.

Good luck to you. Man it's been a long time since I've posted anything on the Creek. I read a bit everyday but seldom post anything. Maybe some of this will help.

[Dan Chouinard]

Being able to use a feeder was the main reason i wanted a shaper. I am 52. Have had nerve injuries in left hand, tennis elbow on left, nerve damage with muscle atrophy in right shoulder. Oh, and the carpal tunnel on both wrist. The right shoulder gives me the most trouble as it fatigues very quickly. I can still crank out door parts with my jessum router table. Made parts for and glued up 18 doors and drawer fronts in 8 hrs recently. I was happy with that. Look forward to letting the feeder push stiles thru the machine however.
Thanks for the safety feedback guys, especially Peter. Never liked cutting narrow rails. Shop made sled with toggle clamps served well until I learned to keep rails 5 1/2" wide and then rip in half on table saw after the ends where cut. Quicker and safer.
Any other thumbs up for the book Rod recommended?