I was going to post this in the thread on Laguna 14 twelve wheel alignment issues. But I decided that would amount to hijacking the OP's thread and I did not want to do that. However there is enough differing opinion on coplanar wheel alignment just in that thread to suggest to me that there are some additional questions worth exploring and then some additional questions that might be specific to the Laguna 14 twelve. I do also own one as does the OP of the other thread.
This is a long post. But it is the product of having done a ton of reading the past few days here and elsehwere including reading manufacturers owner's manuals for a multitude of different bandsaws and watching countless videos on bandsaw tuning and whathaveyou. Most of the post uses Grizzly and Laguna bandsaws for purposes of discussion, mainly because I own a Laguna 14 twelve on the Laguna side, because there is a great deal of information available form Grizzly for other members to go explore and because as you will likely see shortly, both companies lie on opposite sides of the coplanar wheel discussion in my opinion.
I think there is enough evidence out there from experienced users to suggest that there is advantage to aligning crowned bandsaw wheels so that they are coplanar. That said there are other experienced users that simply do not think it matters and in one sense I think I can see their point as well.
Those that have managed to acheive coplanar alignment report these advantages:
1) Far less adjustment when changing from one blade size to another
2) Better, straighter cuts even though they are adjusting less
3) Blades falling right onto the center of both the top and bottom wheels
4) Smoother, quieter operation
5) According to Grizzly, less wear on saw components
So if all is true, there certainly does appear to be advantages to achieving coplanar alignment of the wheels.
What is fairly clear (as mud) is that there is a dizzying array of different bandsaw designs...even within those that are primarily marketed as woodcutters. Some of the manufacturers appear to be big proponents of coplanar wheel alignment (Grizzly for one) others at least from their websites and their product documentation appear to reside on the other side of the fence (Laguna for one). Then there are those that do not have crowned wheels....an entirely different story. I don't think I can categorize Laguna as a fence sitter. There is absolutely nothing in any Laguna bandsaw documentation or video that discusses coplanar alignment. The subject is completely ignored or avoided and neither the 14 twelve or any other Laguna bandsaw in their current product mix includes the kind of left/right allen screw adjustment for the upper wheel that is on the Grizzly for example. You can only adjust the upper wheel alignment as a byproduct of adjusting the blade tracking via the tracking knob on the back of the saw. The Grizzly has both left/right alignment of the upper wheel via those allen screws and the tracking knob that the Laguna has.
The "problem" for some of us with the 14 twelve if there is one is that Laguna is painfully silent on the topic of coplanar wheels. There is not even any help in the manual or in their vaunted videos for removal and re-installation of the wheels. Is there a torque spec for the nut on the shaft? Who knows! Granted I think you want to avoid over-tightening the nut on any bandsaw wheel shaft but even the slightest bit of help from the manufacturer in that regard would be helpful. Don't want to give us a torque spec...how about telling us that it should be a 1/4 turn past snug or a half turn or whatever you want...but say something!!!!
Do they have factory installed shims sitting on the shaft out of view and do they not want customers messing with the factory alignment on the 14 twelve? Hard to imagine that is the case as it is hard to imagine the saw maintaining alignment for its entire usable life without some adjustment eventually.
The Grizzly does not have the familiar four bolt lower wheel pattern for adjustment of the lower wheel. The Grizzly relies on wheel shimming and only wants customers moving the lower wheel out or in (forward or backward) reference the upper wheel via adding wheel shims to the shaft behind the wheel.
As is the case with any four bolt pattern lower wheel bandsaw, only the N/S bolts on the Laguna should be used for adjustment. The E/W bolts should not be adjusted. There is nothing in the Laguna documentation regarding adjustment of the four bolts on the lower wheel assembly although many of us are probably familiar with the four bolt pattern and it adjustments.
Also as the OP of the other thread has indicated, it is a bit difficult to even check alignment on the 14 twelve as the wheels sit in the upper and lower wheel housings such that the edges of the housings extend out past the edges of the wheels not the other way round with the edges of the wheels exposed when you have the doors open. All by way of saying that even with the table out of the way, you have to make a gauge that has two perfectly straight edges that are just the right size to meet the wheel edges top and bottom without interference from the wheel housing leading edges. The gauge edges must be exactly straight, parallel and in exactly the same plane in order to gauge the wheel alignment of the 14 twelve wheels. It could be done. Off the top of my head I guess I would try to take two strips of aluminum of exactly the right length but no longer to use as my straight edges and affix them to a piece of ply or something else long and rigid to span the distance from top wheel to bottom wheel making sure that the two aluminum strips are exactly parallel and exactly in alignment top to bottom as nothing less will accurately gauge the alignment of those wheels. By affixing two straight edges to a piece of something, you would hope to allow the straight edges to get past the wheel housing edges. Your gauge would end up in the shape of a C clamp with the forward edges of the aluminum strips at each end of the C hopefully getting past the edges of the upper and lower housing in order to get onto the wheel edges. The entire process even if there is adjustment available is made much more difficult by the leading edge of the wheel housings extending past the leading edges of the wheels themselves as that is what precludes simply running a single straight edge all the way from top to bottom of both wheels.
The complete lack of information from Laguna on the entire subject of coplanar alignment of wheels nor any of the fixturing that one would need to deal with plus the complexity of having to build a gauge just to get past those wheel housing edges suggests that they prefer to have the customer mess with blade adjustment each time a new blade is installed. In my opinion, they either don't believe in or don't care to give customers help in trying to gain the apparent advantages of coplanar alignment. Even if they are delivering their bandsaws with coplanar wheels, I seriously doubt they would stay that way without needing any adjustment for the life of the saw. Hence Laguna seems to be coming down firmly on the side of considerable blade adjustment each and every blade change or accepting some level of compromise as opposed to providing for field coplanar wheel alignment. I don’t think that is an unfair statement.
Grizzly goes as far as saying that coplanar wheel alignment will in fact extend the life of the saw and its components. They are firmly on the coplanar side of the fence.
So far, I have not attempted to build a gauge to test for the coplanar alignment of my 14 twelve wheels. I have only had one size blade on the saw so far and it is a very quite and smooth running bandsaw so far. As you guys might have seen from my other thread, I have had to adjust every other Tom, Dick and Larry thing on the saw. The dead quiet operation of the saw does lead me to believe that the saw wheels are not that far out of alignment although I can see with the naked eye that they are not quite exactly coplanar.
So from where I sit here are the general questions that might be worth additional exploration:
1) For those that support coplanar wheel alignment of crowned bandsaw wheels, are the purported advantages as I have described them? Have I missed some....have I overstated others? Here I am not asking about the differences of opinion between supporters of running coplanar wheels and those that do not think it matters. I am asking supporters if I understand the advantages as they understand them.
2) Should any woodworking bandsaw lets say 14 or greater have upper wheel left/right adjustment allen bolts or bolts of some kind thus providing for left/right field adjustment of the upper wheel or is blade tracking wheel adjustment sufficient for purposes of achieving coplanar alignment of the wheels, assuming you can gauge them? Myself I am thinking that left/right wheel alignment is not the same as upper wheel blade tracking. Hence, bandsaws that have both, give the user a better shot at coplanar alignment.
3) Should any woodworking bandsaw lets say 14 or greater have some sort of lower wheel adjustment capability and should the manufacturer offer information regarding the proper adjustment of the lower wheel?
As for question 1 above I do not want to limit the observations of members that do not believe there are advantages to acheiving coplanar alignment. Just do me a favor and tell us where you are coming from if you simply do not think it worthwhile vs somebody who believes in coplanar alignment telling me that I have either missed some of the advantages or have overstated others.
As for things along these lines that are specific to the Laguna 14 twelve:
Based on my description of the 14 twelve wheel housings does the coplanar wheel gauge design I suggested above make sense for this saw or any other with the wheel housings configured as they are on the 14 twelve or have I missed something critical that would suggest a different gauge design?
Thats' it folks. Have at it hopefully. I do apologize for the length of the post. I have no idea how guys like Erik keep track of all the stuff they see and have to compete with in the business they are in at least as it relates to bandsaw variables. Not that it appears all that difficult to deal with as a tool. It is just surprising how many different answers there are to the Market's desires for a woodcutting bandsaw.
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Originally Posted by John Huds0n
