Needed... 10' 2x4s (preferably quartersawn)

[Kent A Bathurst]

.........Warranted to stay straight...... $6.53 per 10'......

Almost $1.00/BF. Stuff had darn well better stay straight!!

[Dan Hintz]

Well, THAT was depressing... just came back from the lumberyard a few miles from the house. The guy took me out to the yard to view a sample load... I kid you not when I say nearly 50% had the pith in, and easily 50% of what was left had serious circles. It's like the entire load as cut from 6" diameter trees! NOT impressed... but delivery was only $7 Home Depot and Lowes have significantly better stock, if that tells you anything.



Scott, looking at the Weyehaeuser site now...



Mike, I'm thinking Roxul Safe'n'Sound in the joists, spray foam on the outer walls (concrete), and undecided on all of the inner walls for sound deadening.

[Mark Stutz]

What is the cost of metal studs compared to wood? No worries about them staying straight.

I've never heard of them used for residential use, but they seem to be used almost exclusively now for commercial use.

[scott vroom]

Mike, I'm thinking Roxul Safe'n'Sound in the joists, spray foam on the outer walls (concrete), and undecided on all of the inner walls for sound deadening.

Dan, any of the rock wool products will do a good job of sound deadening in a std 2 x 4 wall but will perform much better if woven between staggered 2 x 4's on a 2 x 6 plate. This eliminates the considerable sound transmission that occurs through the studs and screws.

[Pat Barry]

Me? Over-engineer? Pfft!

I want straight because I know what a royal PITA it is to attach drywall to a stud when you're not quite sure where the centerline lies hidden behind that sheet. Even worse, if you're trying to attach something to the stud wall after the wall is mudded/painted. I'll happily pay a premium to get wood I can count on.

But I'm not sold on any one method just yet...

Holding the 2x4's at their proper distances midspan is another function of the blocking.

[Pat Barry]

You sound like you've built walls before. I framed out my basement bathroom, and I conclude that 'stick' framing is kind of designed to keep things true enough, especially when adding cross members for cabinet nailing and once drywalled. Reasonable 2x4's are flexible enough in their thickness that they can be moved into submission enough to tame reasonable twist or bow. As for crook, I just don't find that 2x4's are guilty once acclimated. Especially in a basement which doesn't get raking light, I doubt you'd notice any minor bow in the walls.

You might just do better to order extra regular stuff and discard/return all the offenders.

In lieu of hard-to-find-or-expensive qs 10-foot framing lumber, is it stupid to make 10 footers by sistering 2 flatsawn 8-footers? I mean, they'd keep each other honest, give you a super wide nailing footprint for drywall and cabinets and would only be skinny at the top and bottom 1foot respectively.

I know, I'm back to over-engineering, but, I'm one of those too.

The 2x4's that have some bow in them that is perpendicular to the 3.5 " face is no sweat, the blocking easily takes care of that. Any 2x4 with twist or with bow perpendicular to the 1.5" face should be sorted out. Use those pieces for the blocking.

Oh yeah. If you do get this stuff from HD you will naturally be picking and sorting. Go in during off hours and you can spend all day doing this if you want and get what you want.

[Kent A Bathurst]

It's like the entire load as cut from 6" diameter trees! NOT impressed...

Not "like" they were cut from 6" diameter. They very probably were.

The mills have machines called "small log processors". Rather than going through multiple processing steps, for the small diameter, you shove one in and out comes a finished 2x4. Plus bark and chips. At a staggeringly high speed. Lets them use the small diameters without tying up the capacity of the larger mill equipment.

And - recognize that it is a virtual certainty that the studs you see have come from eastern Canada. There are "sawmills" and there are "stud mills". Two completely different critters. They use two different raw materials. Different capabilities - rare to find 16' coming out of a stud mill - they simply are not set up to handle the longer lengths.

The SPF trees are farmed, and they grow like weeds. THey are harvested when it makes economic sense to feed the studmill monster, and are replanted. The next gen does not have much time on this earth before they follow the destiny of their predecessors........

The good news/bad news bit:

The bad news is this ain't ever gonna produce what you are looking for. The good news is the low cost of framing lumber, due to the very efficient conversion of trees into stocked shelves at the BORG.

Holding the 2x4's at their proper distances midspan is another function of the blocking.

True. And one other important function. I am not an expert in fire codes - national nor local - but I do know for a fact that there are many places where the maximum allowed clear vertical run is 8' [or so]. You get above that, and you must put in blocking between all studs as a fire break - anywhere that reduces the clear run to 8' or less.

Dan - you might wanna check that out........or, mebbe not, depending on your preference to be able to wall it up and say "Huh? What?"

[Peter Quinn]

I am not an expert in fire codes - national nor local - but I do know for a fact that there are many places where the maximum allowed clear vertical run is 8' [or so]. You get above that, and you must put in blocking between all studs as a fire break - anywhere that reduces the clear run to 8' or less.

Dan - you might wanna check that out........or, mebbe not, depending on your preference to be able to wall it up and say "Huh? What?"

In my area its at the top and bottom of every wall cavity and every 10' vertical maximum in taller walls.

[Peter Quinn]

Correct.

I think that comes down to a semantics issue for our purposes. They are the same cut, same grain structure.

I was speaking from a pragmatic standpoint. You are correct in terms of the grading handbooks.

Totally semantics, exactly the same thing, vaguely annoying to boot, but when you get 200 pages of architectural specs on a big project, and you have to order that material from a major manufacturer, they wont recognize your order if you don't use the proper semantics. Silly, bureaucratic, but very specific. I used to work for a guy that made hardwood flooring, occasionally sold softwood products and often supplied millwork items made of both, so we had to order that material. You can look through manufacturers catalogues for days and not find QSDF T&G porch decking. Doesn't exist. Its like going to France and ordering French fries. Not what they call them event hough they are the same thing exactly. I wonder how this came to be?

Art mentioned small local mills.....all bets are off there, the major trade organizations are not compulsory nor are their rules, individuals are free to make up their own terms, grades, and rules and often do IME. To me it matters little what they call it as long as you get that you want and understand what you are getting.

[Peter Quinn]

I would caution against metal studs in a basement application as they will tend to rust if there is any moisture, running wiring can be more difficult than with wood and hanging anything off the walls in the future is more difficult. Better to use the blue treated wood that is mold resistant, insuring that your wood is installed with appropriate vapor barriers.

Ive been looking for the blue wood for years, other than on TV where do you find it? Her in CT I've yet to see it in the local yards or bog boxes at all.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Totally semantics, exactly the same thing, vaguely annoying to boot, but when you get 200 pages of architectural specs.........

Yeah, buddy. I could stop reading right here [but I did finish it]. I have been down that rabbit hole before. You got no argument from me.

Whatever forum those guys hang out on - if you find it, let me know so I won't ever go there even by accident.

[Dan Hintz]

Possibly this weekend I will stop by the local 84 Lumber and see about ordering some of those Framing timbers from Weyerhaeuser mentioned earlier. If the price is right, it'll be worth it for the reduced trouble.

I'll dig into the max span before blocking is needed... I have plenty of 8' 2x4s to cut up

[Brian Hale]

When they built my shop/garage i asked why they put blocking in and they said Maryland required it at 8' as a fire break. Also came in handy when i hung OSB on the walls.

[Mark Wooden]

Dan-

I'm gonna step back for a second and ask if we're over-engineering this.

My house is a cookie cutter big-box builder house. My basement was finished by a contractor. I'm certain NONE of the framing lumber in my home was picked out with intention. I just don't think it matters that much.

Before this thread, I would have just gone to a reputable lumber dealer and asked for 10ft framing lumber. If it arrived and looked to be in bad condition, I would have sent it back. Else, I'd just have used it. I just doubt you'll have an issue with this strategy.

Exactly.....
Looking for all VG lumber, as great as it would be, would be largely a big waste of your time that you could spend partitioning off your basement( huge by the way, I'm jealous;-) ). VG lumber warps also, just maybe in a different direction. Most all lumber will be fairly straight when it comes off the truck, warpage usually starts when it's drying.
Crown your material, nail the studs in bowed all the same way, add blocking where putting up fixtures and cabinets, and try not to wait too long before getting your drywall up; it helps to keep the studs from walking too much.
I'm not saying just use anything , of course you want to cull the really bad stuff out- anything with a knot 2/3's across,anything twisted while it's still wet etc. But you're not going to find a load of clear VG 2x4's because the trees just aren't big enough any more.
And you can trim out with steel studs; use a single/double 2x shoe plate under the bottom track, line doorway openings with 2x's or use trim screws. Hang cabinets with the proper screws for steel studding. You can even use a thicker gauge stud in cabinet areas if you're concerned about weight.

[scott vroom]

Ive been looking for the blue wood for years, other than on TV where do you find it? Her in CT I've yet to see it in the local yards or bog boxes at all.

I've not seen that Bluwood out here on the left coast either. Green PT is common for plates on slab, and it would be wise to use sill gasket beneath the plates unless you're certain there exists a visqueen or rigid foam vapor barrier between the earth and the slab. Even then I'd recommend using it, particularly in a basement where moisture can enter from the side. PT is rot resistant, but the studs aren't and the sill gasket will prevent ground moisture from wicking through the plate into the studs.

In my area, fire blocking is required in stud walls >8' in height. The blocking is typically centered vertically, but can be place anywhere providing it meets the 8' rule.