Make bow saw for resawing?

[Kirby Krieger]

Hi. New to woodworking; have some experience using tools. I do not have a bandsaw and don't find either of the following worth pursuing right now:
- buying an inexpensive band saw which I will soon find inadequate, or
- buying an expensive band saw.

For the time being, I'd like to be able to resaw hardwood (mostly 4/4, but including 3/4 to 12/4, some of it exotic and hard) by hand. I have had some success resawing with the "Classic 700" bow saw fit with the 32mm Turbo-Cut Japanese-style blade (sold widely — I got mine from Highland Woodworking). I _think_ a taller blade would track better, and that any loss in efficiency due to drag on the blade faces would be more than offset by tracking well and therefore removing less wood. Imho, the Turbo-Cut blade works well. (I started with and continue to use Japanese-style saws.) There is a 550mm Turbo-Cut blade available that is 45mm tall. Since I can't find a suitable saw that holds this blade (it is made for a miter saw), I am considering either making one (I have made a 12" Turning Bow Saw from the Gramercy kit that Tools for Working Wood sells), or purchasing another "Classic" bow saw and making a stretcher for it that would allow the 550mm blade to be tensioned and used.

As a beginner, there _are_ reasons to re-invent the wheel — nonetheless, I'd like to roll on a smooth path and avoid unnecessary roots and rocks. Any suggestions?

Some additional notes and questions:
- I know that at 550mm (toothline c. 500mm, 18") I won't be resawing anything over 10"wide, if even that.
- I am very much interested in the figure in individual boards. The width limit of c. 10" is not, at present, a hinderance.
- Does anyone have a source for the hardware that fits these Turbo-Cut blades (blade holders, handles)?
- I am not wedded to the Turbo-Cut blades, but since I have never sharpened a saw they provide a utility that is valuable to me.
- I think at this size a bow saw performs as well as a frame saw (afaict, bow saws have one stretcher in compression; frame saws have two).
- Would I get similar or better results with a large back saw, such as the 16" one Bad Axe sells (or even just a large regular Western-style saw)?
- I am a member of Shannon Roger's Hand Tool School. One of the future projects is making a large frame saw for resawing.

Thank you.

[Paul Sidener]

There are going to be many opinions on the best way to resaw boards down. I think the way to go would be the Shannon Rogers and Tom Fidgen go about it. I don't know if they do it exactly the same, but I think they are close. Tom Figen uses a kerfing plane and a frame saw. The kerfing plane starts the kerf, giving the saw a path to follow. You also mentioned Bad Axe, they sell a kit to make both, the kerning plane and frame saw. The problem with using a backsaw is you can only saw till you get to the back, maybe 4 inches.

http://www.badaxetoolworks.com/kpfs

[Bill White]

First off, you want a FRAME SAW, not a bow saw. BIG difference.
Bill

[Kirby Krieger]

First off, you want a FRAME SAW, not a bow saw. BIG difference.
Bill

Hi Bill — can you elaborate on what the difference in performance is, as long as the blade is the same? As I noted, I'm not talking about boards any wider than c. 10". Thanks.

[Patrick Chase]

Hi Bill — can you elaborate on what the difference in performance is, as long as the blade is the same? As I noted, I'm not talking about boards any wider than c. 10". Thanks.

The difference is that Europeans traditionally use one, 'Mericans traditionally use the other, and both think the other is completely wrong.

You already know what a bow saw looks like, so here's a picture of a frame saw as made from the Bad Axe kit: http://www.theunpluggedwoodshop.com/...-part-two.html

The frame saw is symmetric from side to side when set up for resawing, whereas the bowsaw has to be tilted to one side or the other so that its frame clears the workpiece. IMO you can get used to either, though there will undoubtedly be more vehement opinions :-).

[Kirby Krieger]

Hi Paul — thanks for the reply and the link.

Is the depth-of-cut limit imposed by the back of the back saw the only disadvantage of using one for resawing? The Bad Axe 16" Tenon saw has 4" of blade under the back — in theory one could resaw any length of board up to almost 8" wide. Bad Axe also sells an 18" saw with 5" of blade under the back — the "Roubo Beastmaster" — which would — again, in theory — allow one to resaw any length of board up to almost 10" wide.

While those widths are smaller than what I think I'd be able to do with the 18" blade I'm considering making a bow saw for, they are close enough that I might consider the back saw — which of course has other uses — solution. It may be a silly idea — I don't have the experience to know.

More particularly: what argues against using a bow saw with a 1 ½" blade for resawing boards up to 10" wide?

[Warren Mickley]

I have used a Roubo type Veneer saw for about 35 years. A few notes. For resawing you want a saw with about 3 teeth per inch. If the teeth are small, the gullet fills up with sawdust before it gets out of the kerf, which makes a mess. For the same reason, you want a saw that is considerably more than twice as long than the thickness you are trying to saw. Otherwise some of the teeth don't get out of the cut to release their sawdust. For a ten inch board you want 25 or thirty inches long. A back saw is not appropriate for resawing: too short, teeth too small, back in the way. The "Roubo Beastmaster" bears no resemblance to anything in Andre Roubo's three volume work.

A 1 1/2 inch blade will work. A wider blade is all right, but if you start off a little crooked, it is tough to make a correction.
roubo_veneer.jpg

[Stew Denton]

Kirby,

I think you should consider a saw with a longer blade than 18." I don't resaw much, but when I have I usually have the lumber at a 45 degree angle away from me. I first cut to the line facing me and to the line on the end of the lumber, then flip the lumber 180 degrees and cut on the opposite side of the same end, and when nearly cutting the full width of the lumber I again swap the board around. I continue to do that until the ripping is complete.

If you do that and have the blade going all the way through a 10" (true 10" not a 1X10) at a 45 degree angle, then the length of the blade inside the lumber is about 15 inches, which only gives you 3 inches of saw movement. Thus the need for a longer blade.

I don't recommend sawing at a 90 degree angle to the length of the lumber, sawing at a 45 degree angle is much easier to keep centered and true.

If I am not understanding you correctly then my concerns may not be valid. Just a thought.

Sorry Warren, I had the same idea you did, but didn't see your post until after I had started and posted mine. I think that Warren does a much better job of the details of why you want the greater length than I did.

Stew

[Luke Dupont]

I would use a long, rip cut bow-saw blade mounted in a frame as others have suggested above (not a bow saw).

Here's a blade that would work: http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/c...wripblade.aspx

It's 5tpi, and around 28". I've considered using it to making a frame saw myself.

I would not recommend Japanese blades, as they're generally universal cut, and you really want a coarse rip tooth pattern for this.

Edit:

Hi Paul — thanks for the reply and the link.

Is the depth-of-cut limit imposed by the back of the back saw the only disadvantage of using one for resawing?

How long of a board are you trying to resaw? If you're just going for 10x10, and your bowsaw has 5" of clearance, then go ahead. Though, you'll definitely need a saw with more than 24" or so of blade, I'd imagine. 18" won't cut it.

If you're planning on using a bow saw with a turning blade to resaw longer lengths, I'd just make a square frame instead, as that will be *much* easier to control. If you want to use your blade in a bow saw later, just build a bow-saw body for it and take it out of the square frame.

[Kirby Krieger]

Thanks for all the good info.

If I understand correctly, a 4-tpi rough cross-cut blade would make for better resawing than the Turbo-Cut blade? (Afaict, the Turbo-Cut blade cuts as well _in general_, but may be less suitable to resawing due to gullet-clogging.) The linked blade fits the Classic 700 and has c 25" of teeth.

The "Roubo Beastmaster" bears no resemblance to anything in Andre Roubo's three volume work.

I've unfortunately given you that out of context. Mark Harrell, the man behind Bad Axe Tool Works, knows saws. The "Roubo" in the name of that back saw is taken from the famous "double sliding dovetail tenon joint piercing through a massive 5" thick benchtop" of the now-celebrated Roubo workbench.

The (bad) idea of possibly using a large back saw to resaw small lumber is mine alone.

Bad Axe — as mentioned in this thread — makes the blades and supplies the hardware for Fidgen's kerfing plane and frame saw kit (Fidgen got his original custom blades from Bad Axe). The two of them have paired up to present a saw-making extravaganza this summer (sold out).

Thanks again for all the useable information .

[Luke Dupont]

Thanks for all the good info.

If I understand correctly, a 4-tpi rough cross-cut blade would make for better resawing than the Turbo-Cut blade? (Afaict, the Turbo-Cut blade cuts as well _in general_, but may be less suitable to resawing due to gullet-clogging.) The linked blade fits the Classic 700 and has c 25" of teeth.



I've unfortunately given you that out of context. Mark Harrell, the man behind Bad Axe Tool Works, knows saws. The "Roubo" in the name of that back saw is taken from the famous "double sliding dovetail tenon joint piercing through a massive 5" thick benchtop" of the now-celebrated Roubo workbench.

The (bad) idea of possibly using a large back saw to resaw small lumber is mine alone.

Bad Axe — as mentioned in this thread — makes the blades and supplies the hardware for Fidgen's kerfing plane and frame saw kit (Fidgen got his original custom blades from Bad Axe). The two of them have paired up to present a saw-making extravaganza this summer (sold out).

Thanks again for all the useable information .

No. You want a rip cut, not a cross cut. The blade I linked to, though it is 5tpi, will work much better than a cross-cut pattern. Crosscut teeth are not very efficient at cutting along with the grain. Rip teeth are vastly superior for that.

[Kirby Krieger]

Hi Stew — I'm glad you posted — thanks. All good and helpful info. You do understand correctly, afaict. I tried the "4-corners" method but got better results — at least the one time I tried — with two shallow corners on one long side, but deep enough to meet in the middle and leave a kerf on that side the length of the board, and then completing the cut sawing across the slightly down the length of the board with the already-made kerf in the back and following my gauge-mark in the front. I should emphasize that I have yet to resaw anything in a way that I deemed worth repeating — hence my appeal to everyone here. I will change to a better-selected blade (and maybe saw), make sure it's long enough relative to the board, and give the 4-corners method a few more tries. Thanks again.

[Kirby Krieger]

No. You want a rip cut, not a cross cut. The blade I linked to, though it is 5tpi, will work much better than a cross-cut pattern. Crosscut teeth are not very efficient at cutting along with the grain. Rip teeth are vastly superior for that.

Thanks Luke — was about to post this very question in response to your other post when your reply here popped up. Will go with the 5-TPI rip rather than the 4-TPI crosscut.

I apologize for the green-ness of my wood horns. Everyone's help makes my beginner's steps into something that might be mistaken for a stride .

[Luke Dupont]

Thanks Luke — was about to post this very question in response to your other post when your reply here popped up. Will go with the 5-TPI rip rather than the 4-TPI crosscut.

I apologize for the green-ness of my wood horns. Everyone's help makes my beginner's steps into something that might be mistaken for a stride .

Haha - no problem. My horns are only very slightly less green than yours, I'm sure - and this community is very welcoming and willing to help

Edit: One thing to note on those blades. While I think they're definitely the best option out there, and they'll work out of the box, you may need to touch up the teeth with a file to get the most out of them. They don't come all that sharp from the factory. But, resharpening your saw is something you'll have to learn anyway, so now's as good a time as any!
Don't worry about setting the teeth, though. If anything, you might want to reduce the set, but I'd leave it as it is for what you're doing. But then, that's just my guess; someone more experienced might have better advise.

[Stew Denton]

Hi Kirby, thanks for the nice comment, but I have only done a moderate amount of re-sawing myself. The method you described above was fairly similar to what worked best for me, however, I normally saw nearly to the far corner of the end without stopping in the center, but what you describe may work better than what I do, I don't know.

I don't have a bow saw, but am thinking about making one, and also have thought about a frame saw. SHMBO has advised me that I need to stop buying woodworking stuff for a while though, so it will be a couple of months or so probably.

Since I don't have a bow saw, I use my much loved 7 point rip carpenters saw. It seems to work fine, but I think it is likely much slower than a frame saw. Also, from Warrens comments above, I should be using my 4 1/2 point rip instead of my 7 pt. I don't have a 3 point rip saw, the 4 1/2 is the closest thing I have to that.

Thank you for doing the post, I learn things from folks like Warren and the others too.

Stew