[OP]
Member
Hi Folks,
I have an outlet that was working and now doesn't just after some work was done. Holes were cut above the wall and probably broke the wire.
It now has a hot wire in the wall. Does anyone have any suggestions how to find the break other than opening all the walls and tracing the wire back?
All the walls and ceiling is enclosed and the only idea I have is to maybe pull the wire through the box if its loose to get some idea how long the broken wire is?
appreciate any help.
Steveo
Moderator
Do you know where the holes were cut? If so, would not that tell you where the break was? Be sure to turn off the power before working with it! (In fact, I would turn off the power now - if the wire is damaged in the wall it could possibly cause a fire.)Originally Posted by stevo wis
If the wall is hollow inside I use an inspection camera on a flexible shaft. Drill a 1/2" hole and feed the shaft inside. It has a light on the end.
If the wall is sheetrock it's pretty easy to cut a big rectangular hole to make the repair then patch and paint. Note that you should never splice a wire it a wall, only in a box. If there is enough slack it may be possible to add a junction box without running new wire.
JKJ
Contributor
If you have access to a toner, often called a fox and hound, that would be the easiest. I've also had some luck using a circuit breaker tracer to follow the path of a cable in the wall. You would plug the transmitter into a working outlet on the same circuit (assuming there is one) and use the receive to scan in the area of the suspected break. You should get a tone when near the hot wire, but it will drop off past the break. it should get you close enough.
Guest
Are you sure there are broken wires? Have you pulled the outlet to verify nothing is loose on the receptacle itself?
Moderator
Well, I'll provide what is likely very UNhelpful advice but if you have access to a TDR (time domain reflectometry), one can actually find where along a cable a break (or more accurately, an impedance discontinuity like an open) is from where the TDR is connected. If you have access to a cheap oscilloscope, I understand some minor mods can be done to it to act like a TDR.
Likely you have access to neither but I thought I'd toss it out there.
Last edited by Chris Padilla; 10-07-2016 at 1:16 PM.
[OP]
Member
Folks,
I dont know which circuit it is on. Everything was ok a few weeks ago and after the tenant started cutting it went dead.. There are at least two cuts and some drilling that occurred. It is in a wall between some heavily insulated sound rooms so its going to be a job so even though I have an idea where it probably is, i want to minimize the damage. I do like the idea of the toner. I had an electrician out but he was hesitant start cutting but i think it's obvious that a hot wire shouldnt be in a wall and I am going to have to open it.
If any others have ideas, please pass them on and thanks for the suggestions.
Stevo
Contributor
A cheap option for an inspection camera - a USB borescope: https://amzn.com/B00JERRES6
Connect it to your laptop or cellphone and take a look at things.
I had the same problem. After tearing up a lot of drywall to find the problem, I found a wire had pulled out of a wire nut in a JB up in the attic. It may not be what you think it is. First check all outlets in the circuit to make sure you don't have a loose wire. If a wire was actually cut, it probably would have tripped the breaker. You may have an open neutral. Check that by testing voltage between the hot wire and the ground at the receptacle in question. If you don't have one, pick up a simple plug in receptacle tester, and if you buy one, get one that has a GFI test button. Under $10.
Last edited by Ole Anderson; 10-07-2016 at 9:27 AM.
NOW you tell me...
Contributor
Checking outlets isn't a bad idea. I recently needed to remove a GFCI outlet that had been in place for about 20 years. When I pulled it out, two wires pulled out of the back so they had to be fairly loose. This had clamp type connectors not the stab type.
Moderator
The suggestion I have is to map out all the circuits in the building! This will not only help figure out this problem, but is a safety thing and could save a lot of effort in the future. I like to write the circuit number inside the box and put it on a sticker on the outlet cover. You can use a tool from Home Depot to figure out which breaker goes with each outlet/fixture, or with a friend by flipping a bunch of breaker switches. A couple of walkie-talkies helps with this.
BTW, this is not appropriate for your situation, but anyone doing new wiring: I like make both logical and physical cable diagrams. It also helps to take photos of the walls and ceilings after the wiring is done and before things are covered.
JKJ
Member
My 2cents: after checking out the obvious, that being all accessible components from panel to non-working outlets/switches, for incorrect wiring/defective components, I'd then have a look inside the wall at EACH AND EVERY place the tenant drilled or cut regardless of whether I found anything wrong in step 1. As mentioned in another reply, if you do find damaged wiring, you cannot leave the repair inside the wall. Gotta make splices and such in a workbox that remains accessible. As for "pulling the wire" to see where it's broken, I don't see how that would work. Assuming that the wires were properly installed, they are secured to framing in at least two places to prevent movement. Again, just my 2cents based on my own personal experience.
Contributor
I just checked and one can get a borescope for a computer or cell phone for about $20. There are many times I could have used one and now will have to get one.
Member
I would second the suggestion to use a toner. It should pinpoint the break for you so that you're not spending a lot of time hunting for it. Underground versions of the toner / locator used to be called "bird dogs".
[OP]
Member
HI folks,
I found it. I used a cheap scope on my computer. I think i had paid about $15. It showed the cable went down. I then cut a double box size hole to check further down and saw that it headed under a set of steps. One more hole, and there is a wire going nowhere. Two double covers covered the damage. I guess it never was powered, at least as long as I have owned it and it had nothing to do with the construction, just a sloppy remodel earlier. There went 5 hours, but at least i found it.
thanks everyone.
Contributor
Very glad that you figured it out.
Could you show the scope you bought and do a short review. Something like this could be very useful and low cost.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
