Hand tool gloat and Stanley plane ID help. Pic heavy.

[joel cervera]

Yesterday I picked these up from an older gentleman who was selling this set of hand planes that belonged to his uncle. He was selling these and his uncles wooden tool chest full of tools ($1000 for the chest) all of which were used to build his uncles house on his farm in Washington.

He was asking $150 and I gave him $160 cuz I didn't have change..

Included

Stanley Rule & Level #78 Rabbet plane
Millers falls #17 Adj. mouth block plane
Stanley #4 type 7
Stanley #4 Defiance ?? (help ID?)
Stanley #5 type 7
Stanley #5 type 15
Stanley #7 type 7
Stanley #7 type 10
#8 Jointer Stanley/Union/Ohio?? (help ID?)

The planes are mostly in great condition only one has any rust on it worth mentioning and the type 7 #5 has a chipped lever cap.. Otherwise these are all solid and ready for cleaning and fettling.. most with much or most of their japanning left. So they were kept relatively protected for the most part..

The seller checked eBay and knew he was letting em go cheap .. I think he just wanted em out of his garage..

As for me I was really interested in the #78 and the #8. otherwise these are duplicates so i'll likely move them on at some point after fettling and using em. maybe one will unseat one of my current users.

Anyhow here are pics.





#78 - this one's in great condition.. with just some slight surface rust on the knob and top of blade.. Im real happy about finding a nice old one that is complete!







Here are some pics of the no. 8 I'm hoping to identify.

From my research it seems that the main casting might be a Stanley type 6?? with a frog from another maker ( or defiance?) .. the chip breaker shows baileys patent on it and the blade seems to have R&L markings on it.. The lateral lever is not typical stanley.. Also not sure the wood is Rosewood..

[joel cervera]

Here's the other one Im hoping to Id. #4 Stanley defiance? thats what I'm coming up with.. It has a butterfly type end on the lateral lever.. Anyone recognize..? thx

[steven c newman]

No. 4.......Late 40s, to early 50s Defiance. Stanley crimped the "Whale Tail" down about 1962, or so. Defiance changed over to Handyman about 1952 or so.

No. 8....Lateral lever makes it look like it was made by Ohio Tool Company, may have been from just after Stanley bought them out.....around 1920, or so.

[Jim Koepke]

Union Tool Mfg and later Union Plane Co. also twisted their lateral levers. The roundness at the top of the frog doesn't look like a Stanley frog. A type 6 Stanley would have patent dates inside the depth adjuster wheel.

The blade may have been a replacement. My recollection is Ohio Tool Co. put an o before the plane #.

http://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/...-some-history/

Another page on that site has a little about Union Planes:

http://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/...ow-about-them/

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

One more thing, if my memory is working Union used mahogany for their knobs and totes.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Union Tool Co. had a different looking pivot on the lateral lever.
SDC12595.jpg
And pivoted below the roller, not above it.

[steven c newman]

Happen to have both a Stanley/Bailey #7, and an Ohio Tool Co. No. 0-7...and a Stanley No. 8

Side by side..
IMG_2579 (640x480).jpg
Up front. both have low knobs, Stanley is a Rosewood, Ohio Tool Co. I think used Mahogany ( as did Sargent.)
IMG_2580 (640x480).jpg
Frogs. The Stanley is a type 9.....The Ohio Tool Co. is a type 4 ( Globe logo on the iron)
IMG_2581 (640x480).jpg
Laterals. Also note the different shape of the handles....
IMG_2585 (640x480).jpg
Next to the Stanley No. 8...all are about the same age.
IMG_2583 (640x480).jpg
That be a LOT of weight, sitting on my bench....
Union frog was from a Union #4, BTW

[steven c newman]

As did Sargent, and Ohio Tool Co.

[steven c newman]

There was two styles of Stanley Defiance planes......OP's was from the late 40s, until replaced by the Handyman line of tools. There was a second plane, back in the 30s, about the time Stamley also had the "Four Square" line. Same red coloured wood for the handles, red seems to go all the way through the hardwood handles.
defiance plane.jpg
Leonard Bailey, when he split away from Stanley, and started to make his own planes ( before Stanley bought him out, again..) had a Defiance and a Victor line of planes. Around 1870s? Stanley later brought back both Names.....with the Victor looking more like a Handyman style of plane..
IMAG0020.jpg
This would have been a #1204 Red frog, and chipbreaker...Gray base casting.

[Jim Koepke]

Union Tool Co. had a different looking pivot on the lateral lever.
SDC12595.jpg
And pivoted below the roller, not above it.

My recollection is their later planes had the arrangement of roller and pivot reversed. This may have been after the Stanley purchase.

Amazing how much can be changed in a few decades.

jtk

[steven c newman]

SDC12608.jpg
A #4 and a #3 Union smoothers
SDC12586.jpg
Frog from a Union #5 A ( Stanley 5-1/2 size)
SDC12603.jpg
#4 and #3 frogs by Union. There were only three "types" made BY Union......Stanley started putting their frogs on right after the take-over, once existing parts bins were empty.

[joel cervera]

I definitely had no illusions about the frog being Stanley. Just the main casting. And the only reason for that was the frog receiver on my no 8 matches an image I found on a type 5 stanley. But after researching more.. Ohio also had an identical frog receiver on some of their earlier planes. But, it seems Stanley had "No 8" cast into the planes in front of the knob on the type 5. Whereas, Ohio had No 08 on their planes.

This makes me think it possible that my initial assumption is correct and the main casting on my plane is a type 5 Stanley. But the frog does seems too be from Ohio. I possibly have a Frankenplane. Stanley base casting, blade, chip breaker. With an ohio frog..

Additionally, in the light of day I was able o see that the knob is indeed rosewood on my plane.. so another hint at Stanley ( for the casting).

[steven c newman]

Maybe, at one time, the Stanley frog was broken? And the only way to fix it, was to use the Ohio one? Does it work as intended? You COULD price a replacement Stanley frog....good luck with that.....or, just put the No. 8 into regular use. Sharpen it up, tune it a bit.....put it to work.

Note: It is also fairly easy to just switch out the lateral levers between the Ohio and the Stanley.....without having to replace the frog itself.