Chisel sharpening - difficulties

[Jessica de Boer]

Jessica, my real question for you.... I assume that you do not hollow grind yet have no problems registering the blade on the stone correctly.

Hollow grinding is a big nono with Japanese chisels. I have absolutely no problem registering the blade on the stone correctly. But I've been sharpening like this since I was 14 years old. That's 22 years now. I have chisels that have never seen a bench grinder and the angle is still at 30 degrees.

This is a close up photo of the reflection of a straight line on the bevel. As you can see the reflection is also perfectly straight which in turn means the bevel is perfectly flat.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Hollow grinding is a big nono with Japanese chisels. I have absolutely no problem registering the blade on the stone correctly. But I've been sharpening like this since I was 14 years old. That's 22 years now. I have chisels that have never seen a bench grinder and the angle is still at 30 degrees.

Makes sense to me. I only own one Japanese Chisel and it is in horrid shape. Not sure if I can bring it back to life or not (it went through two hurricanes and was ignored). I would have dumped it onto my Tormek and run a hollow grind if you had not just stated that this was a big nono. Clearly I have a lot to learn so thanks for that information. Will see if the chisel can be saved. Not sure I am willing to take the time to fix it; and I have fixed some things in very bad shape.

Nice picture, by the way. I am impressed.

I have a lot of difficulty holding exactly where I want it. I excel at many things, but, this particular skill defies me. I really need to find people near me who excel at this and have them evaluate me while I fail at it.

[Derek Cohen]

I would like an explanation why hollow grinding Japanese chisels is a "no-no". I have been hollow grinding cheapish Iyoroi chisels for 20 years without ill effects. I am careful to not let the steel heat up. Much of this time has been using a Tormek. The edge does not chip. I do not see the iron backing reduced in any significant way.

Out of deference to tradition, I hone my Koyamaichi and Kiyohisa chisels with flat bevels.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Brian Holcombe]

I would like an explanation why hollow grinding Japanese chisels is a "no-no". I have been hollow grinding cheapish Iyoroi chisels for 20 years without ill effects. I am careful to not let the steel heat up. Much of this time has been using a Tormek. The edge does not chip. I do not see the iron backing reduced in any significant way.

Out of deference to tradition, I hone my Koyamaichi and Kiyohisa chisels with flat bevels.

Regards from Perth

Derek

It often causes the hard steel to relax away from the iron, bellying the back. If I have to grind a plane iron during setup then I’m often doing a second round of ura-dashi.

It’s rare that I do it, and practically never after they’re fully setup.

It May have no effect on the Iyoroi becuase the iron is not that soft, it’s very noticeable when used with very soft iron.

[James Pallas]

This is my experiment over the years. Jigs in general register off of the flat side of a chisel. This includes the eclipse, which is shown, and the Veritas mk2 that I also own. In doing so that is where registration is obtained. If there is a discrepancy in thickness fro the front to the back of the blade there will be a difference in how the bevel is formed. When the blade is placed on the stone and the wheel is kept tight against the stone than the bevel will be formed coplaner to the registered back. If pressure is placed at the bevel and rocked to meet the stone you have a 4 point unstable arrangement with one side of the wheel raised up. Now the bevel will not be coplaner with the back. If you now try to form a secondary bevel and press lighter, which we tend to do, the secondary will not look equal to the main bevel. It does not take much. I would have used a chisel for the demo but all of mine are freehand and would be slightly off from a jig. I hope the photos explain it some. And yes that is an original eclipse. Looks new doesn't it. It rarely gets use.
Jim

[ken hatch]

This is my experiment over the years. Jigs in general register off of the flat side of a chisel. This includes the eclipse, which is shown, and the Veritas mk2 that I also own. In doing so that is where registration is obtained. If there is a discrepancy in thickness fro the front to the back of the blade there will be a difference in how the bevel is formed. When the blade is placed on the stone and the wheel is kept tight against the stone than the bevel will be formed coplaner to the registered back. If pressure is placed at the bevel and rocked to meet the stone you have a 4 point unstable arrangement with one side of the wheel raised up. Now the bevel will not be coplaner with the back. If you now try to form a secondary bevel and press lighter, which we tend to do, the secondary will not look equal to the main bevel. It does not take much. I would have used a chisel for the demo but all of mine are freehand and would be slightly off from a jig. I hope the photos explain it some. And yes that is an original eclipse. Looks new doesn't it. It rarely gets use.
Jim

Jim,

I have one of those as well and like yours it gets little use. I keep it for nostalgia reasons but if I were to want to use a jig it would be the first I'd try. BTW, I tried the new LN Eclipse rip off and while well made (as are most things sold by LN) it was still a jig. I gave it to a friend to put in his grandson's tool chest.

ken