referbishing a 608

[Tom Bussey]

I wanted to show the 608 being ground bit I forgot the camera. I just got finished grinding a 4 1/2 so I thought I would show the steps because They are the same. Usually one machines the largest surface first, and then the sides. but in this case it has already been machined. I clamped the largest surface to my angle plates. Yow can see that two angle plates were used. The 608 was done the same way it is just that the angle plated were spaced farther apart. Then the first side that was ground was placed on the magnetic table and the second side was ground parallel to the first. Then the plane is flipped and the first side reground, usually only about 1 to 1 1/2 thousands will clean up every thing. Because the bottoms of the planes may or may not be flat, the clamps can distort the plane a little bit. This is my way of making the sides as parallel as possible and exactly the same thickness. It also gets rid of any possibility of any twist from clamping to the angle plate.

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Next the plane is clamped in a precision vise and the bottom is ground. And trust me a precision vise is not just any ordinary vise vary accurate vise. When I did the 608 I used two vises, just like the two angle plates.

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I spent just under 4 hours grinding this plane. I also had about 40 minutes travel tine and I wouldn't have spent the time to use a machine that is designed to do one thing which is to remove metal if I thought I could use sandpaper and a piece of glass to flatten it. I know every body thinks they can flatten a plane but iron doesn't sand like wood

[Eric Brown]

There are some that would be concerned that the frog bolted in place can distort the bottom somewhat. I find that flatness isn't so much a problem as smoothness. A polished surface is easier to push and doesn't rust as quick.
Looks good so far.

[Charles Edward]

5/8" square ought to fit off the saw with maybe a little minor tidy-up with a chisel.

Fundamental misunderstanding of the appliance, its purpose, and application.

Most "hand tool woodworkers" bring a machine mentality when crossing over to the 'dark side.' If you're lucky, you'll figure it out, but it'll probably take staying off forums to do so because until now every single post in this thread, except the one you are reading now, has missed the mark widely.

[Doug Trembath]

Extremely well said...

[Warren Mickley]

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I spent just under 4 hours grinding this plane. I also had about 40 minutes travel tine and I wouldn't have spent the time to use a machine that is designed to do one thing which is to remove metal if I thought I could use sandpaper and a piece of glass to flatten it. I know every body thinks they can flatten a plane but iron doesn't sand like wood

We certainly were using planes at a high level centuries before there were people grinding soles by machine. So all that machinery is not necessary.

I haven't used sandpaper on wood or iron for over 45 years, but I did once level an iron plane with SiC grit on glass.

Later I used a marking gauge (wooden, not machined) to lay out a line 1/32 inch from the edge of a board, on both sides of the board and planed down to the line. I used the plane I had flattened. It took over 600 full shavings to remove 1/32 inch. Try that with one of your planes.

[John Lanciani]

Later I used a marking gauge (wooden, not machined) to lay out a line 1/32 inch from the edge of a board, on both sides of the board and planed down to the line. I used the plane I had flattened. It took over 600 full shavings to remove 1/32 inch. Try that with one of your planes.

Wow, planing shavings at 0.000052" thickness must be amazingly satisfying...

[Jimmy Harris]

I wanted to show the 608 being ground bit I forgot the camera. I just got finished grinding a 4 1/2 so I thought I would show the steps because They are the same. Usually one machines the largest surface first, and then the sides. but in this case it has already been machined. I clamped the largest surface to my angle plates. Yow can see that two angle plates were used. The 608 was done the same way it is just that the angle plated were spaced farther apart. Then the first side that was ground was placed on the magnetic table and the second side was ground parallel to the first. Then the plane is flipped and the first side reground, usually only about 1 to 1 1/2 thousands will clean up every thing. Because the bottoms of the planes may or may not be flat, the clamps can distort the plane a little bit. This is my way of making the sides as parallel as possible and exactly the same thickness. It also gets rid of any possibility of any twist from clamping to the angle plate.

IMG_0053.JPG IMG_0054.JPG IMG_0057.JPG

Next the plane is clamped in a precision vise and the bottom is ground. And trust me a precision vise is not just any ordinary vise vary accurate vise. When I did the 608 I used two vises, just like the two angle plates.

IMG_0064.JPG IMG_0062.JPG IMG_0063.JPG

I spent just under 4 hours grinding this plane. I also had about 40 minutes travel tine and I wouldn't have spent the time to use a machine that is designed to do one thing which is to remove metal if I thought I could use sandpaper and a piece of glass to flatten it. I know every body thinks they can flatten a plane but iron doesn't sand like wood

I'm pretty sure you enjoy rehabbing old tools. I know I do. But knowing you have a big money machine like that to flatten the soles, I can't help but think to myself, "Why didn't you just buy a new Lie Neilsen? Or even a Holtey?" I kid, of course.

[Ted Calver]

Thanks for showing the process, Tom. I appreciate the pictures and enjoy watching the progress. Keep 'em coming.

[Tom Bussey]

The thickest place on the body is where the frog connects to the body. Do you even think you can distort a body by tightening a #12 screw with a screw driver? It is a wives tale and if you believe it I have a bridge I want to sell it is called the Brooklyn Bridge

As far as machine mentality, If I were to buy a Lie-Nielsen #8 for $550 I would read how I am going to love using it and congratulations on getting it, I love using my lie-Nielsen plane and they are the ones I reach for first. But let me do it and what kind of response do I get? Lie-Nielsen and Veritas planes are all finished on a surface grinder. You can't have it both ways.

[David Carroll]

These debates always leave me shaking my head. Of course you don't need to surface grind a plane to make it perform well. People got along fine in the past. We didn't really need metal planes at all, people got along just fine with wooden ones. We didn't need to invent the car, people got around fine with horses and buggies. We didn't need the telephone, the mail worked just fine. The list goes on.

Progress moves ever forward. I appreciate the attention to precision that surface grinding gives to fine old user planes. I also appreciate folks who figure out (or were taught) to take a block of wood and a tapered iron and use it to make wood smooth, flat, and lustrous. They're all impressive skills that I admire. They are just different paths to a similar goal. To make useful items, that often times are beautiful.

Thanks for the pictures Tom, my experience with surface grinders is limited to making a gauge block as the final exam for my industrial arts class 50 years ago. (I got a B. I was within 2 tenths off in width and length, but my thickness was half a thou short- still kinda miffed about it after all of these years).

DC

[Jim R Edwards]

A few years ago I sent Tom a flat side 605 1/2 bedrock plane to be resurfaced. It was pitted, rusted, and had been abused and wasn't sure if it could be saved. When I received the plane back from Tom it was like it came from the factory. I was amazed that he was able to save that hand plane. I put a Hock blade in it and it performed beautifully. I appreciate what you do and hopefully you will continue to do so. If you ever decide to start grinding planes again for others please let me know, I have a flat side 605 bedrock and a old Ohio Tool company 4 1/4 inch plane that could really use a resurfacing.
Jim

[Jim Koepke]

Thanks for showing the process, Tom. I appreciate the pictures and enjoy watching the progress. Keep 'em coming.

Same here.

I spent just under 4 hours grinding this plane. I also had about 40 minutes travel tine and I wouldn't have spent the time to use a machine that is designed to do one thing which is to remove metal if I thought I could use sandpaper and a piece of glass to flatten it. I know every body thinks they can flatten a plane but iron doesn't sand like wood

A machine can do the work with precision controlled by the operator. In your case it gives the added benefit of 90º sides.

Using sandpaper on a flat surface takes a different knowledge and skill set.

A plane with a slight convexity can end up worse when worked on by someone pushing it over sandpaper like a rocking chair.

In my limited experience I've seen a few planes with badly flawed soles brought into useable condition with a calculated use of sandpaper.

To tell the truth, if I had the machinery it would be my preferred method.

jtk

[Doug Trembath]

Tom, I have purchased Bedrocks from you, and enjoyed every one, but I have to disagree a bit, and hope we remain friends...

I now have all Bedrocks except the fractional ones, which became so expensive I couldn't compete. I don't have #1, #2, 4-1/2, 5-1/4... I have found that I can refit one of these planes to work absolutely as well as the ones I purchased from you. Each of them, according to their pretty much accepted job definition, will take sub- thousandth shavings, and leave an immaculate surface.

Again, it's not my aim to discredit your efforts, but the cast iron from the manufacturer, in these planes, in my humble opinion, generally don't need to be reground.

[Jim Koepke]

I now have all Bedrocks except the fractional ones, which became so expensive I couldn't compete. I don't have #1, #2, 4-1/2, 5-1/4...
…
Again, it's not my aim to discredit your efforts, but the cast iron from the manufacturer, in these planes, in my humble opinion, generally don't need to be reground.

To the best of my knowledge Stanley never made a #1 Bedrock.

Patrick Leach offers a #1 Bedrock > http://www.supertool.com/601.htm

These days the LN #1 is out of range for me. Good for me one was bought years ago at less than half of what they go for today.

jtk

[Doug Trembath]

Yeah, Jim, I agree. I love to collect, so I wish I could have the ultimate listing... So, sue me... Collecting is more than acquiring, the needs are different... The justification of the expense, again, is much different from need, it is governed by want...
It doesn't matter what is available, more so it is what is desired...