vanity face frame question

[Rob Blaustein]

I have a few questions about the faceframe for a bathroom vanity I’m building. Below is the practice version I constructed and temporarily installed; these will be shop cabinets after I install the actual vanity. The two outside compartments will have drawers, the two larger compartments will have a panel door, and I’m still wrestling with the middle compartment—I thought it would be interesting to have it be open with shelves, but I may end up just putting drawers there. There is ¼” clearance to the walls on the two sides.
IMG_6412edited2.jpg
So now my faceframe questions:
1. If I do inset doors and panels, does it matter if the faceframe stiles have different widths, as shown below (I’ve left out the rails for the drawers)?
For example, if I do ¼” overlap, the stiles that cover the single panes of ply (#s 1, 2, 5, and 6) would be 1 ¼” wide, but the middle two stiles (3 & 4) will be thicker because they need to cover those back-to-back 3/4” panels. So they would end up being 1 ¾” if I don’t overlap on the inside of the middle cabinet to keep it flush for shelving. In the examples below I’ve made the jump more gradual by beefing up stiles 3 & 4 by overlapping ½” on the larger compartment side. I could also leave a little more space between the outside panels and the wall, but it would have to come at the expense of the drawers and they are already narrow (9”).
2. I thought incorporating that arched piece and those side “legs” into the faceframe would impart a more furniture-like feel, but I’m not sure how to scribe the frame to the base moulding. Below are the two options I came up with—is one preferable? Are there better ways to do it? Do the two outer stiles (1 & 6) always have to be longer than the others, as in the top version of the faceframe below, or can they all be the same length as in the lower version? In the books they always seem to have them longer.
faceframe.jpg

[Scott Parks]

Rob,
Awesome start on your project! It's great to see some pics. You'll learn a lot from practicing. Those will end up being nice shop cabs.

and I’m still wrestling with the middle compartment—I thought it would be interesting to have it be open with shelves, but I may end up just putting drawers there.

If you go with shelves, remove "UNIT 2" all together. Mount the shelves on brackets or pins to the carcase sides, this will yeild another 1.5" in width.

1. If I do inset doors and panels, does it matter if the faceframe stiles have different widths, as shown below

No. It is personal preference, and whatever looks good for proportion. BUT, for ease of construction, it wouldn't hurt to keep ALL of the faceframe the same width. Don't make your face widths smaller or larger because of how many plys to cover. Adjust your frame as needed to go up to the wall, and let it overlap to the inside of your cabinet.

For example, if I do ¼” overlap, the stiles that cover the single panes of ply (#s 1, 2, 5, and 6) would be 1 ¼” wide, but the middle two stiles (3 & 4) will be thicker because they need to cover those back-to-back 3/4” panels. So they would end up being 1 ¾” if I don’t overlap on the inside of the middle cabinet to keep it flush for shelving.

Don't worry how much your overlap is. It will vary depending on where you locate your face. Typically, each unit will have it's own faceframe, not one face frame to cover 3 cabinets. You may want to consider making one large cabinet, IF you have room to maneuver it into position. I don't think it would matter if you overlap into the middle, as long as it is the same on both sides. Your shelves would be narrower to fit behind the faceframe. (I hope this makes sense, I'm terrible at painting a picture with words)

2. I thought incorporating that arched piece and those side “legs” into the faceframe would impart a more furniture-like feel, but I’m not sure how to scribe the frame to the base moulding.

Make a teplate to the shape of your base molding, and transfer it to your cabinet. Fill the gap with caulk that mathces your tile or grout.

On the outside stiles, it's your choice. The idea of making them longer is to hide the end grain of the rails. Your walls hide that. But to keep the peice consistant with cabinetry I prefer to keep them longer like in your top drawing. Your arch and legs can be a separate peice from the face frame. This will make it look like it is sitting on a pedestal, or base...

I hope this helps and made sense....

[Mark Rios]

There are over 6000 members here in the creek and I'm sure that there are over 6000 that know more about cabinets than I do but in reference to unit 2 (the middle)..........from your pics it looks like a waste can would have to be placed around a corner or farther away. What about using the center section for a waste can space (inside the cabinet, accessed through the door); with or without sliding base and/or with or without a hole in the counter to drop stuff through. I've seen the hole in the top of the counter in commercial applications but it may not be practical or fashionable in a bathroom setting, I don't know.

Just a thought.

[Rob Blaustein]

There are over 6000 members here in the creek and I'm sure that there are over 6000 that know more about cabinets than I do but in reference to unit 2 (the middle)..........from your pics it looks like a waste can would have to be placed around a corner or farther away. What about using the center section for a waste can space (inside the cabinet, accessed through the door); with or without sliding base and/or with or without a hole in the counter to drop stuff through. I've seen the hole in the top of the counter in commercial applications but it may not be practical or fashionable in a bathroom setting, I don't know.

Just a thought.

Mark,
Putting a small waste basket in the middle unit is an interesting idea. I don't think I'd put a hole in the stone top at this point--it's actually being fabricated any day now (or has been already) and it just doesn't strike me as a way to go. But a slide out waste gizmo of the sort that people use in kitchens might work. I'll consider it--thanks for the suggestion.

Scott,
Thanks for the kind words and suggestions--as you know, this is my first attempt at something like this. I guess I could eliminate the center piece if I can figure out how to incorporate the floor. Another thing I thought of is using 1/2" ply for those middle pieces--I may have enough of it around. Part of what's tricky is I'm constrained by plumbing as well as location of mirrors and sinks and trying to keep things centered etc.

--Rob

-Rob

[Jim Becker]

Rob, I really like the design overall and you have some good comments. I like the waste can idea...they are so often an afterthought in a bath setting, although there will still likely be a need for at least a small one near the hopper...

Another idea for the center section is a series of graduated height drawers instead of a door. Smallest at the top and proportionally larger as you go to the bottom. Very handy in a vanity setting for personal care items, makeup, hand towels, etc.

[frank shic]

rob, did you do the tilework yourself? it's GORGEOUS! BTW, i usually make all my face frame members 2" just for simplicity and i overlap the plywood edges instead of trying to flush them.

[Rob Blaustein]

rob, did you do the tilework yourself? it's GORGEOUS! BTW, i usually make all my face frame members 2" just for simplicity and i overlap the plywood edges instead of trying to flush them.

Frank,
Thanks for the compliment on the tile, but I'm afraid we didn't do it. We did pick out the tile--travertine--and we designed the layout. I promised Scott Parks I'd send him some pics since he's about to tile his place so maybe I'll post pics of the rest of the bathroom in the OT forum. The installation would have been way too much for us, given all the things going on here (we had a baby as our contractor was finishing the tiling). Also, you're seeing the floor--we have a 6' x 4' shower in the same material. It was a lot of work and interesting to watch. Our contactor does it the old fashioned way--in mud--and really did a nice job with it. The little gizmo you see in unit 2 of the vanity is the timer/controller for the electric floor warmer--my wife didn't want it visible.

The reason I'm being a bit stingy on the face frame width is that I don't want to take away any more of the drawer space in the outer two sections as they are already narrow. If I did 2" all around I'd lose an extra 1 1/2 inches on the drawer widths.
--Rob

[Craig Feuerzeig]

Rob,

The picture might be decieving, but I would be careful of your right hand scribe. It looks as though you might have a conflict with the windowsill and the top right hand drawer. A mistake I've made too many times.

[Rob Blaustein]

Rob,

The picture might be decieving, but I would be careful of your right hand scribe. It looks as though you might have a conflict with the windowsill and the top right hand drawer. A mistake I've made too many times.

Craig, I do have some clearance between the front of the face frame and the sill, but I will have to be careful with the top drawer on the right clearing the underportion of the sill. Rob