Epilog - A little out of Price Range

[Jared Greenberg]

Went to demo the Epilog yesterday (40 Watt Helix). It was a pretty neat machine and looked like it was very easy to use. He opened the front of it, attached a couple of magnets to bypass the safety. Did a great job and the salesman was very knowlegable about the product, and even showed us how to color fill (It was very easy).

I had started a thread a few weeks ago about picking out a laser to engrave the barrels of baseball bats, and it definately did the job and was exactly what I was looking for.

The only problem is that as of right now this is the only application that we are going to be we are having a hard time justifying the cost. We toiled around with the idea of getting extra business for the machine to basically pay for it each month, but still want to focus on building the main part of the business and don't really want to get into anything at this point.

Is there anything out there that could do about the same thing, but cost half as much? The Epilog was about 20K CDN. I know there are some Chinese ones out there. Any suggestions. We would most likely purchase one if the price was right as it definatley does add something to our product.

[Pete Simmons]

An Epilog Mini-18 35 watt should do bats just fine.

Not 50% but maybe about 65% of your mentioned costs

[Craig Hogarth]

Prices are negotiable. Start shopping around and you'll get a great deal.

[Jared Greenberg]

Epilog Mini 35 watt is listed at 15.2K (28x12x6 engraving area). 45 Watt same size is 17.7K.

The 40 Watt took about 2:20 to do one bat.

[Nancy Laird]

Jared, call a ULS rep and see what he can do for you. Unless you're willing to be a guinea pig, I'd strongly recommend against getting a Chinese laser - they are delivered with a spare tube (not a great recommendation for their confidence in the tubes they are using), and the rumor is that the Chinese laser tubes are going out at an alarming rate.

Just my .02.

Nancy (99 days)

[Joe Pelonio]

Jared, call a ULS rep and see what he can do for you. Unless you're willing to be a guinea pig, I'd strongly recommend against getting a Chinese laser - they are delivered with a spare tube (not a great recommendation for their confidence in the tubes they are using), and the rumor is that the Chinese laser tubes are going out at an alarming rate.

Just my .02.

Nancy (99 days)

True, but on the other hand you can buy a lot of $300 tubes for the savings of 75% or more on the purchase price. I'm not pushing the Chinese lasers mind you, but I do feel like they will eventually work their way into the market as they improve based on feedback from demanding owners.

I would wait until such time as you find a local (US or Canada) supplier for them that provides support, and not try to deal with China. I'm sure that eventually there will be local suppliers for them, in fact there is one now in Oregon.

[Jared Greenberg]

I just got off the phone with a ULS rep; M360 50 Watt at 16.5K CDN at my door. He can't give the OK with operating it with the doors open and sounds like bypassing the safites is harder than on the Epilog.

Red Sail lasers has a distributor in Toronto, but can't really tell which one would suit me.
http://www.hflaser.com/le.html

This company has a US person handling its stuff
http://www.hxlaser.com/products/laser4.htm

I would really like to add this machine to our shop, but unlike most of you this would be the only appliation of the machine for the forseeable future.

[Joe Pelonio]

Red Sail lasers has a distributor in Toronto, but can't really tell which one would suit me.

Those are the two Chinese lasers that seem to be selling the most. I don't know where you are, but considering the possible cost savings it would be worth a trip to Toronto if they have a demo that you can see as you did with the Epilog, and be sure to ask about their support system, and whether they have buyers that you can contact for reference information. Then you can make a valid comparison on features, speed, and suitability to your application, and be able to balance initial cost and service/parts costs with support and reliability issues to decide.

[Scott Shepherd]

I don't know how crafty you are on how much you enjoy beating your head against the wall, but if you are even considering the Chinese lasers, please take the time to read through this forum on people who have bought them. I seem to recall one person getting one and it running great from the start with no real issues. The rest of the stories people have shared with us are full of things that would make the average person resort to violence.

One problem recently was the most well known rep wasn't returning emails or phone calls for weeks. Seems he was possibly in China on business. Can you afford to be down for a week? Two weeks? More? When you have a problem who will you can and what can you expect?

I personally can't be down for a week, two, or three. My customers wouldn't stand for it. If you can't afford the better machines with better service, team up with someone who has one and sub the jobs out until you can afford it (just a thought).

[Thinus Rabie]

I have had no problems with my Chinese laser , and had excellent service from the Company.

Obviously you have to make sure who you are dealing with.

I like Chinese lasers !!!

Just my 2 cents !

[Jared Greenberg]

I would like to get the Epilog, since I've seen it understand the basic concepts and I know that it works well for the application and the store is about 1.5 hours away.

The hardest part it seems is getting a vacuum system in place to take the air out.
I personally can't be down for a week, two, or three. My customers wouldn't stand for it. If you can't afford the better machines with better service, team up with someone who has one and sub the jobs out until you can afford it (just a thought).[/quote]

[Mike Mackenzie]

Jared,

On the universal systems it is easier to defeat the interlocks than on the Epilog.

Universal has a front door that opens without removing any panels and then it is as easy as placing a couple of magnets in a certain area.

Of course I did not say this for safety reasons.

Joe,

I do not think people are looking at this the right way. If lets say you have to change out a tube every 3 months at $300.00 per incident that figures out to be 1,200.00 per year. Now if you consider the life expectancy of the gas CO2 tubes to be any ware from 3-5 years so if you take the 1,200 x 3 = 3,600 + what ever shipping charges + what ever down time is involved over time these cheap Chinese systems will end up costing as much or more than a US system.

Also the 300 dollar tube replacement charge is just one price I have heard pricing any ware from 300-1000.00 dollars for the replacement tubes and I have also heard life expectancy any ware from 2-3 months max. I have also heard that these systems are not very good for engraving because the tubes do not pulse so consistency in the burn is not to good.

[Scott Shepherd]

Here are a couple of threads worth looking at before buying a Chinese laser.

Note the inability for some to use Corel on some posts. Also, no machines are without problems. It's just the abilitty to solve the problem or have someone solve it that means the most to me. There are so few Chinese Laser owners around this forum, you're not too far from being on your own in solving problems. However, if you have an Epilog or ULS, or any other big name, then you're in a room with 100's of people who have their machines and can (and do) normally help in a matter of minutes.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=64830
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=64477
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=63655
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=64732&highlight=Chinese
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=54404&highlight=Chinese
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=61782&highlight=Chinese
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=60440&highlight=Chinese

[Brian Robison]

Hi Jared, what's hard about the vacuum system?
My little Mini 18 wasn't very high and the front comes off. 25 watts would do the bats if you didn't need them done lightning quick. I'm guessing 3 or 4 minutes per bat tops.

[Joe Pelonio]

Jared,
Joe,
I do not think people are looking at this the right way. If lets say you have to change out a tube every 3 months at $300.00 per incident that figures out to be 1,200.00 per year. Now if you consider the life expectancy of the gas CO2 tubes to be any ware from 3-5 years so if you take the 1,200 x 3 = 3,600 + what ever shipping charges + what ever down time is involved over time these cheap Chinese systems will end up costing as much or more than a US system.

Also the 300 dollar tube replacement charge is just one price I have heard pricing any ware from 300-1000.00 dollars for the replacement tubes and I have also heard life expectancy any ware from 2-3 months max. I have also heard that these systems are not very good for engraving because the tubes do not pulse so consistency in the burn is not to good.

It's a dilemma, for sure, Mike.

I've seen Chinese lasers that would do the bats for $4,000 with a $300 tube. That particular one had a one year warranty. At $1,200 year for tubes it would take over 7 years to get to the cost of a name brand laser.

My Epilog is on the 3rd tube in 3 years, and the cost for the last one after warranty was $2,300. Tube life expectancy obviously cannot be predicted,
as you know from posts here, it can vary from a few months to many years
regardless of the laser brand. Like you I have heard that the glass tubes are less consistent in power but whether that would affect the quality of the bat marking I wouldn't know, that's something someone would have to look at closely. I have not seen one in operation, but have seen samples done on them and they looked just fine.

I'm glad I already have one and don't have to make the choice. Just wait until the Chinese cars hit the U.S. market for under $10,000. In fact I heard that some GM vehicles already have Chinese built engines, and Ford is looking into that too.

http://www.motorauthority.com/cars/c...to-cost-10000/

http://www.tigertruck.com/