Keerrrrect!! In a pinch, I've just used scrap wood...could've cared less what it's length was...just marked three of 'em one way, 4 of 'em up, and then measure for 5 of 'em across.Originally Posted by Thom Sturgill
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Keerrrrect!! In a pinch, I've just used scrap wood...could've cared less what it's length was...just marked three of 'em one way, 4 of 'em up, and then measure for 5 of 'em across.
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The Steel Square by Fred T. Hodgson, "A Practical Treatise On the Application of the Steel Square, Containing an Exhaustive Collection of Problems and Solutions." This is 471 pages of more than you ever wanted to know. Back when most carpenters had never been to school, much less learned decimals and fractions or long division, those charts on the framing square were their equivalent of a pocket calculator.
On a more practical note, an old carpenter who showed me a lot could adjust an off-true framing square with a couple of whacks with his hammer. As I remember, hitting it on the heel tightened and the inside opened, but as the saying goes, "anyone can hit it. experience is knowing where and how hard."
thnx, jack vines
Contributor
If the tape varies unit to unit, (for example, the distance from 1' to 2' is not the same as the distance between the 2' and 3' marks) then it is truly worthless.[/QUOTE]
I actually have had a framing square that was out of square. I used a punch and gave it a good smack on the inside corner. Brought it bact to usability.I don't know if a good smack to the outside corner would do the same in the opposite direction though.
What you listen to is your business....what you hear is ours.
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Yes, it will.
thats exactly how you do it. peen the inside or outside corners to adjust the square.
v/r
dan
Building my own Legos!
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So let me guess, the combination square I use all the time is probably junk for checking the squarness of wood after I have jointed and cross cut it.
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Bob, good post, that is one thing we all need to check now and then.
I have 2 Starretts and they check out right on and I use those as my standard.
Carpenter squares are a joke in most cases and are not square at all. I showed the guy and HD how bad the ones they had there and he didn't believe it.
I did buy an M3 square from Price Cutter and it was way off. They do have instructions on how to adjust it and I did and now I am very happy with it.
Side note, the M3 is a great square to have, I really like the way it handles and the way I can copy a line around a corner.
Member
Having been a machinist in a past life all I have to say is to drop the dollars once for Starret. It's extremely expensive but there is a reason; they're not just charging for their name. Use the Starrett when things are really critical, like for machine set-up and checking and to check your "users".
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Im not trying to start a fight, but I would recommend checking every square you buy with one you know is true, even a Starrett. I recently had trouble with a 6" Starrett combination square. I got the problem resolved, but the new Starrett square was clearly defective.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...tarrett+square
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Hey Lance,
glad to see you here. i remember your post.
I check my starretts occasionally also. it's not that im not pleased with their quality, but, im a little paranoid. they always check out though.
v/r
dan
Building my own Legos!
Member
Lance hit it right on, I was always taught to check any set up tool or measuring device before starting, only takes a minute and can save ya grief.
Al
Remember our vets, they need our help, just like they helped us.
Member
No matter how much you spend for a device, you still don't know if it is square. I ran a large tool and die shop and we purchased a number of Brown & Sharp and Starrett devices and some of them were not "square". We had "standards" that our quality department periodically had validated by an outside service that we then used to verify the worker's tools.
One day, one of our designers brought in two plastic drawing triangles he had purchased at a local art supply store. He had them compared to our standards and they were as accurate as the tools could measure. The triangle cost a couple of dollars each. They would certainly serve very well as the "standard" in any woodworking shop to validate and/or adjust other devices.
An excellent way to validate the accuracy of the plastic squares is to use two squares on a flat surface. Get a $10-12 plastic 30-60-90 drafting square. To prove it's exactly 90°, take two to a glass counter, put the shorter legs on the counter and face the longer legs away from each other and butt them together (like a teepee). If the legs exactly butt, you can assume you have two perfect 90° angles. Using one of the plastic squares, do the same thing using your other tools. Any that mismatch, means that the tool is not square. You can also take the plastic square with you whenever you go to purchase another tool. Keep your "standard" somewhere where it doesn't get banged up.
Finally, remember that the wood you are using will expand and contract a couple of thousands from one day to the other. Does't pay to get too uptight.
While we are at it, I also only purchase the cheapest of adjustable squares. I square them with a drafting triangle and an auger file until they are square across 10". And I own a Bridge City square that isn't that accurate. Stainless steel machinist's squares are only square until you drop them. I have had several over the years and each has found a away to drop to the floor.
The key is to NEVER use your best square on for day to day measuring. Use it only as a reference tool to verify your other day to day tools.
In a comparison test reported in Fine Woodworking Magazine a couple of years ago, the Stanley 46-123 square was awarded the best value. It's much less expensive than a Starrett and just as accurate.
Howie.........
Member
"Stainless steel machinist's squares are only square until you drop them. I have had several over the years and each has found a away to drop to the floor.".......
Same to be said for the anodized aluminum squares etc... DAMHIKT.I had a purty set of the anodized squares that were pretty accurate when new.... they've all been "adjusted" by re-machining them after sudden stops at the bottom of a free fall.
I will say it's nice having a machine shop at the day job as our in house gearhead machinist likes to make sure things are rather accurate by his terms which is good 'nuff for me. That and he likes to teach-show how to indicate & set up as priority 1... the actual machining is secondary to a proper set up regardless of material steel, wood...
Greg
Member
We can all over think this issue until the cows come home if we want, but the $150.00 square you can buy out of a fancy magazine isn't worth .02 if your cutter (saw blade) is out of square with your table.
Member
I think the main point here is that we are striving to do excellent work and not just "acceptable" work. The goal is to stay as close to "square" as possible. We also need to have the wherewithal to know to check our tools, regadless of brand or price.
I think im going to check out all of my stuff tonight.
v/r
dan
Building my own Legos!
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