Exhausting Cyclone Outside

[John Karam]

So I have narrowed down my choice of cyclone systems to the Oneida 2 HP 13.5 inch impeller Dust Gorrilla or the Penn State 2 HP 14 inch impeller Tempest. From my understanding they are in different leagues so to speak.
http://www.oneida-air.com/newsite/gorilla_2hp.php
http://www.pennstateind.com/store/temp142.html

The reason Im considering either is because I'm exhausting my system outside of my shop, so I will not need a filter. Since the cyclone no longer has to be "perfect" and just has to be good enough to suck up all the chips at the machines, I'm thinking maybe I can get by with a cheaper system, the Tempest. Let me know if theres a flaw in my thinking here please.

My questions are as follows:
Do you guys know if a cyclone is made louder or quieter by ducting outside?
Besides losing heat or cooling, are there any negatives to ducting outside?
Are CMF ratings improved by not having a filter?
Also, by going this route, would a Tempest be more comparable to the Gorrilla? I do not wish to sacrifice the overall performance of the system.

Thanks folks for the help, I really appreciate it!

[Andrew Nemeth]

I'm no expert but I do believe that you do need to be careful ducting directly outside if you have any other vent leading outside. If for example you have a gas furnace or water heater that vents outside you can lower the pressure in the building enough to cause a backdraft of exhaust (including carbon monoxide) into the building. The same would hold true for a spraybooth. The solution would be to make sure you have adaquate supply of freshair coming into the building to compensate for that which is lost. An easy test for this is to fire up the collector and then hold a lit candle near the concerned vents and see if the flame is pulled towards the vent or back towards the inside of the building. Again, I'm not an expert but it is something that I have thought about a bit.

Hope this helps,

Andrew

[James Mudler]

Something to think about. Will you ever move?

I could vent outside today, but if I ever moved into a neighborhood I am willing to bet I would not be well liked. Risk of poor performance due to saving money if the venting/filtering arrangement could change would steer me to buy the better unit because I could do both vent or filter and have good performance.

Duct collection is your lungs. I haven't found a lung on ebay yet

[Dale Lesak]

I think I'd check with your neighbors and the EPA be for I did anything like that. Just to be on the safe side. The exhaust will have very fine wood particles and (Might"??) be explosive. Just my two C's

[Chris Padilla]

If your neighbors do not complain, I'd say do it...no big deal. Yes, it should be quieter venting outside. Lots of us put mufflers on our filtered outputs to help with noise.

A well-designed cyclone shouldn't emit too much stuff through its exhaust anyway but be sure to point the output down so you don't collect water in the exhaust pipe. I believe Steve Clardy, a regular here, does this very thing.

[Matt Meiser]

Lots of us vent outside without issues. If your building was really tight, you draw makeup air in through the flue of a gas appliance causing CO builidup. Mine apparently isn't as it hasn't shut down on improper flue pressure and my CO alarm hasn't gone off. Theoretically you also cause cold outside air to be drawn in raising your heating bills. Again, no problems there--my propane usage was the same the year before and year after I switched. In a hobby shop the cyclone runs very infrequently in the big scheme of things. Some dust goes outside with my setup as the separation isn't perfect, but 99% of the time the prevailing wind blows it towards an open field.

[Terry Sparks]

I have a 24 X 28 foot shop that I use to build cabinets and many times, having enough space in the shop becomes an issue. To solve that issue I have built a small sound insulated storage shed behind my shop that houses my compressor and with a partition, my DC. With the DC portion of the shed is a 15" attic fan that is mounted above the DC to exaust the dirty air to the outside of the shed and is wired to turn on with the DC. Beyond the space savings, I no longer need the 1 micron bags and the shop is much quieter, which is an added bonus to what I used to have.

If you have an issue with negitive pressure drawing air away from your furnace ( I don't, my shop doesn't need to be heated) one solution is to wire a second fan to start up and blow clean air into your shop when the DC is turned on.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi John,

- the airflow of the cyclone could be increased by removing the filter IF the motor load does not increase past rated current. You would have to measure this after installation and provide a restrictor if the motor is overloaded

- the cyclone will be less noisy inside the shop if vented outside, however the airflow can be quite turbulent as it exits the cyclone, which can cause additional exterior noise.

- you don't mention if there are any local ordinances against this, or if you are in a residential, commercial or rural area. Your neighbours may have legal recourse if they object to the noise and/or you have run afoul of local bylaws.

- exhausting somewhere in the order of 1,200 cfm will mean that if it was in a house with 1,200 square feet of floor area in addition to a basement, you would be replacing all the air in the house every 16 minutes. This would be far in excess of what any residential heating or cooling system could handle.

- combustion air must be provided for any fuel burning appliance, and exhausting this much air can cause reverse drafts in flues.


Regards, Rod.

[Sean Troy]

So I have narrowed down my choice of cyclone systems to the Oneida 2 HP 13.5 inch impeller Dust Gorrilla or the Penn State 2 HP 14 inch impeller Tempest. From my understanding they are in different leagues so to speak.
http://www.oneida-air.com/newsite/gorilla_2hp.php
http://www.pennstateind.com/store/temp142.html

The reason Im considering either is because I'm exhausting my system outside of my shop, so I will not need a filter. Since the cyclone no longer has to be "perfect" and just has to be good enough to suck up all the chips at the machines, I'm thinking maybe I can get by with a cheaper system, the Tempest. Let me know if theres a flaw in my thinking here please.

My questions are as follows:
Do you guys know if a cyclone is made louder or quieter by ducting outside?
Besides losing heat or cooling, are there any negatives to ducting outside?
Are CMF ratings improved by not having a filter?
Also, by going this route, would a Tempest be more comparable to the Gorrilla? I do not wish to sacrifice the overall performance of the system.

Thanks folks for the help, I really appreciate it!

You won't go wrong with either one. I have the Tempest and a neighbor has the Dust Gorilla and I'll be darned if I notice any difference.

[John Karam]

More specifics of my site.

The shop is in a stand alone structure with no heating or cooling ventilation of any sort, so there is no gas fumes to worry about. Also, neighbors are few and far between so I know they wont have a problem with it. (A near by lot actually has large exhaust fans in use on a regular basis).

You all have brought up good points for me to consider, thanks for the advice!

Are there any thoughts on the Gorrilla or Tempest question?

[John Karam]

Sean- Is Tempest and Gorrilla the same models I have linked to? Also, on the Tempest, are you running any large tools on it with long duct runs (I'm looking at around 20 feet for my runs) such as a planer (20inch)?

[Sean Troy]

I'm using it for my Table Saw, Planer, Jointer, miter saw, downdraft table, band saw and then some. The ones I'm refering two areboth 2hp but the tempest has a 14" impeller as opposed to the 13.5" for
the dust gorilla what ever difference that makes. My longest run is 40 ft.

[Chris Padilla]

Do yourself a favor and put in a floor sweep...very handy...sucks up wood, bugs, small mammals including kids, aprons, pencils, nuts, bolts....

[Jim Becker]

I own an Oneida system because they only do dust collection and their systems are purpose built, including critical items like the impeller. The current Tempest is a much better product than originally, but I'm not sure how much research and continual engineering PSI does compared to a dedicated DC company--PSI is a mass-marketer. This link at Oneida may be helpful, although they are listing a 2.5hp Tempest, rather than the 2 hp you are showing...they may or may not be the same system.

The collection bin is also smaller than the standard Oneida setup...and preferably, you'll want to move up to a 55 gallon drum if you have the headroom to do so, regardless of which system you choose. Trust me, you can fill it quick with some serious face jointing and thickness. planing!

[Sean Troy]

I own an Oneida system because they only do dust collection and their systems are purpose built, including critical items like the impeller. The current Tempest is a much better product than originally, but I'm not sure how much research and continual engineering PSI does compared to a dedicated DC company--PSI is a mass-marketer. This link at Oneida may be helpful, although they are listing a 2.5hp Tempest, rather than the 2 hp you are showing...they may or may not be the same system.

The collection bin is also smaller than the standard Oneida setup...and preferably, you'll want to move up to a 55 gallon drum if you have the headroom to do so, regardless of which system you choose. Trust me, you can fill it quick with some serious face jointing and thickness. planing!

The S series tempest is the 2.5 HP unit. Mine is the 142 CX. There is no doubt about it, Oneida makes a top notch system. For me, price was a serious consideration when I purchased mine as I was setting up a new shop ( as if I'll ever be done setting up )and had other tools to purchase. Bill at Penn State was most helpful in answering questions each time I called him. Service is important to me also. I can't speak about Oneida's service because I never delt with them.