Shop noise

[Bob Feeser]

Funny you should bring up this topic right at this time. I am in the middle of a sound cancelling earphone test. Santa Claus brought me a regular set of headphones, a nice pair of Sony's that are studio grade, but not noise cancelling. They do have large earmuffs that blocks out some of the sound.
In the audio world, everyone talks about the Bose Quiet Comfort QC2 and newer QC3's and there sound quality with the active noise cancelling feature. They cost 300 and 350.
What I just came across, and have on order, and they are in transit are a pair of Logitech Noise Cancelling Headphones. The crazy thing is that they are listed at $162.19 at Amazon, and only $39.99 at Tiger Direct.
Here are the rest of the listings from CNET.com
The following is a direct copy and paste from the CNET.com site
Where to buy Logitech Noise Canceling Headphones
for Logitech Noise Canceling Headphones from online stores:
$39.99 - $178.99
TigerDirect.com
$39.99 | In stock: Yes
Amazon.com
$162.19 | In stock: No
Neximaging
$178.99 | In stock: Yes
Alwayslowest.com
$149.11 | In stock: Yes
Colamco
$159.26 | In stock: Yes

Check out the top price at TigerDirect. I just ordered a set. I called TD and asked them if these are refurbs, returns, seconds etc, and they said no, we bought these in bulk and have a lot of them, and they are covered by the full factory warranty, in factory sealed boxes brand new. I know from computer sales, sometimes a large company, or distributor goes belly up, and they then auction off their stock to liquidate for the creditors, and don't care what they get for them, oftentimes way under normal cost.
Check the factory part number, they are the same on all of them. 980409-0403
Ok now onto woodworking. I know there may be some who are concerned about possibly not hearing something while it is running. I will let you know. From what I read, they say they block differing percentages of sound, ranging from around 80 percent, down to less than that for people's voices. Low rumbles get blocked out more than voice levels.
I was scouring Amazon for a cheap set of ear muff headphones to listen to my iPod while doing lawn work, trimming bushes with a gas driven loud trimmer, leaf blower, lawn mower etc., then I came across this deal. It is unbelievable at $135 off of regular selling price. I paid 39.99 plus 8 something for standard ground S&H for a total of $48.48 from Tiger Direct. You can see them by clicking on the price for them in the list above. At this price, you don't mind getting them dusty, or in the case of working outside in the summer, sweaty.
Ok the sound quality is excellent with boomy bass, and the highs and middles are not as pronounced as the $300 or $350 Bose QC's, but for 40 bucks, I bet is sounds mighty sweet.
So I thought it timely that you posted the DB levels. I have been wearing sound deadening headphones when I run my planer, but now I realize most of the shop is too noisy. Plus the tunes on the iPod will prevent me from blaring the stereo to be able to hear it, or having to miss it while running a tool. A word of caution, with the sound deadening turned on, (and you can turn the sound deadening on or off on these which is unique) and the music turned up, you may be in a total sound limiting environment.
I am sure with so many at SMC, there are others who have experience with sound cancelling headphones in the shop, I am curious to hear their advice. I will be getting mine on Tuesday, and trying them out in the shop on Wednesday.






Here is a copy and paste from the first review at Amazon.
Superb heaphones, January 12, 2008
By J. Norwood (Orange County, California) - See all my reviews

I just rec'd the headphones today (shipped via UPS) and they work great. They fit perfectly right out of the box. I am currently wearing them right now while I type this and listening to music (who says men can't multitask ?). I will comment on them regarding both aspects - with and without audio. I first tried the headphones on while I was in my living room sitting next to my wife and father-in-law who were having a full blown conversation (about what you ask, I don't know - I couldn't hear them!) right next to me. In addition to them talking, my TV was on and the volume was set to a "normal" level. With both of these distractions in the room, the headphones cut down on the noise considerably. I'd imagine they'll work just as well at drowning out the engine noise on all the flights I'll be using them on. Just that aspect (without the audio) itself is nearly worth the $40 I paid (however, don't let the relatively low price make you think you are compromising on quality). Now, add the ability to listen to music and you have yourself one great noise canceling headset. I must admit that I am no audiophile, but audio quality of this headset is among the best I've enjoyed. I have had the headset on for well over an hour now and they are still just as comfortable as when I first put them on.

One final comment. I am excited about getting these headphones, and the possiblities they have. I am not selling anything, at least not in the literal sense. I do not stand to make anything, not a penny, even if people clicked on every link, and bought from every source. As usual I am getting excited about something that I think some others may want to get excited about also.
I am curious about what to watch out for when using noise cancelling headphones in the shop. Any suggestions?
Bruce I noticed that you have the Bose that you put on with the louder Dyson vacuum. Do you use them in the shop?

[Joe Chritz]

Looks like most of the others have been answered but the DC does increase the noise considerably.

With 10' of flex pieced together to test it the noise went from around 88 to 95 with just the DC running and hooked up. It has to be the air moving past and would make sense why the spiral heads are so much quieter. There isn't a single blade to slice the air.

My tests are not nearly scientific and just a couple feet makes a huge difference in noise. Sound drops off fast in air.

I got 100 for a 5.5 peak craftsman shop vac and 81 for a CT33E festool vac. 100 for the TS55 EQ saw.

After doing some reading last night I need to add ears to several processes that I haven't in the past.

FWIW, my shop dog CASH (Rottweiler) can bark at 101 on command without trouble.

Joe

[Al Killian]

Any chance of you testing the planer with a 6-8" board going thru it? I know my grizzly lunch box planer can be heard in the aparment on the second floor(shop is in the basement). My kirby vac is right around 80dB, which I wearear plugs when using.

[Bob Feeser]

I think it is interesting how changing little things can sometimes have a profound effect on sound levels. I see others speaking about hose lengths on dust collectors, or board size going through a planer. Fascinating. Just last night I had such an experience, even though it is not wood related. I have a stack on washer dryer in the bathroom closet, which backs directly up to the wall of my headboard in the adjoining room. I ran a small load, with just one garment, and the water was splashing aroud loudly, it was around 1:00 am so I did not want to hear the sound, but was tired enough I thought I would be able to sleep through it. The amazing thing that happened is when I added the laundry detergent, it immediately quieted way down. Seriously, it was radical the change. Figure that one out. Low level of water, sloshing loudly, add detergent, everything calms down, and gets very quiet. ??? Ok, back to wood, what else do you do to quiet down your tools?

[Don Abele]

I think it is interesting how changing little things can sometimes have a profound effect on sound levels. I see others speaking about hose lengths on dust collectors, or board size going through a planer. Fascinating. Just last night I had such an experience, even though it is not wood related. I have a stack on washer dryer in the bathroom closet, which backs directly up to the wall of my headboard in the adjoining room. I ran a small load, with just one garment, and the water was splashing aroud loudly, it was around 1:00 am so I did not want to hear the sound, but was tired enough I thought I would be able to sleep through it. The amazing thing that happened is when I added the laundry detergent, it immediately quieted way down. Seriously, it was radical the change. Figure that one out. Low level of water, sloshing loudly, add detergent, everything calms down, and gets very quiet. ??? Ok, back to wood, what else do you do to quiet down your tools?

Bob, the detergent made your water softer thus quieter

OK, seriously, it was probably because the detergent makes the water more viscous (thicker) and the bubbles act as insulation. Just my WAG.

Be well,

Doc

[Eric Gustafson]

I have been using the ER6i sound isolating earbuds for a few years now. I am a avid talk radio listener. I used to listen to broadcast, but now I record programs on the computer, then download them into my mp3 player. That way am radio does not beocome overloaded with electrical noise.

These work great at reducing noise and I can continue to use my loudest tools while still listening to my programs. I have used headphones for this, but they get hot here in Tucson.

I get the earbuds on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Etymotic-Resea...0257229&sr=8-1

[Rob Blaustein]

Don, what kind of meter did you use? Anyone know of a good source for a not too expensive but reasonably accurate meter, if such exists (I know, I didn't say what I mean by 'not too expensive'...).

[Don Abele]

Don, what kind of meter did you use? Anyone know of a good source for a not too expensive but reasonably accurate meter, if such exists (I know, I didn't say what I mean by 'not too expensive'...).

Rob, my sound level meter is from Radio Shack (#33-2050):



I bought it about 6 years ago when first setting up my home theater. The reference DVDs I use (Avia and the Sound & Vision home theater setup DVDs) recommended this specific model. After I bought it, I took it to the Audiology Department at work (I'm in the Navy) and had them test it. It was about 3 dB off so they calibrated it for me. I now have a test tone generator which I can use to verify it's calibration. There are many other much more expensive (and complicated) meters out there, but this one works great for what I've used it for.

The 33-2050 has been discontinued. The replacement is the 33-450 and sells for $45.

Be well,

Doc

[Rob Blaustein]

The replacement is the 33-450 and sells for $45.

Be well,

Doc

Thanks Don--certainly fits the bill for "not too expensive but reasonably accurate." My real motive: my MIL has hearing problems and uses this old hair dryer that I swear is louder than my router. I keep telling her it's going to make her hearing worse--now I can actually test it. Of course if I test it and it reads out at a safe level--well, I guess no one will know I tested it...

[Richard M. Wolfe]

I think the key is getting a comfortable pair (that works well, of course) and keeping them on. Critical to hearing protection are muffling the really loud noises, but I wonder about things like a dust collector running constantly. My father was pretty much deaf in his later years from sitting for hours on a tractor. Also I had a neighbor in pretty much the same shape and he was a truck driver. It would seem constant lower level noise can be detrimental also.

There have been occasions when I left the shop and went into the house I had to go back to the shop or remember to take the muffs back the next time. I forgot I had them on.

[Bob Feeser]

That is the way teenagers talk. If it is the ultimate they call it death. Weird huh. I didn't know how to approach this. I just received the Logitech headphones only minutes ago. Earlier on in this post I told you about the Logitech Noise Canelling Headphones, well they don't sound good, they sound great. Seriously. As soon as you put them on, you say WOW. Once again seriously. Santa just brought me a pair of Studio Grade Headphones made by Sony, audio engineers can't rave enough about them, they are not noise cancelling headphones though, but totally accurate sound. You can read the reviews from Amazon on the Sony's here.
Well if you didn't read my post earlier in this thread, I wanted to find a cheap pair of noise cancelling headphones for use in the shop, and outside gardening. I have a gas driven bush trimmer, leaf blower, lawn mover, etc. I came across these Logitech, going everywhere for over 160 bucks, but for some reason TiderDirect.com had them for only $39.99 plus S&H for a total of $48.88. I read the reviews and decided to give them a shot. I got them today, arriving a day early, so I popped them on, using my inexpensive iPod Shuffle for $79, and the sound clearly deserves a Wow. So much so that I went right back into TigerDirect.com and wanted to order a second pair, and guess what, they raised the price to $49.99 plus S&H so the final price is $58 now. Shucks that ruins it. I wish I knew they sounded this good, I wouldn't have cancelled my second order. The order accidentally went in twice so 2 sets were on order. I called the cancel the second set. Now I am sorry I did. I just can't stomach paying an extra 10 bucks, even though they are $180 dollar headphones. It is the principle of the thing.
So how does this translate to woodworking concerns? I went into the shop, or should I say I started to write this post, then paused, went into the shop with them, and turned on the equipment with the noise cancelling on. I could faintly hear that the tool was running, but all of the loud clamor was gone. My loudest tool a benchtop 12" planer is so loud I bought headphones from Home Depot because I knew I would be losing my hearing using that planer if I didn't. Well with the Logitech Noise Canellers on, it is a quiet whisper way in the background. All the low end clacking and banging is gone, all you hear is a slight whir. Pleasently the music makes it not even a concern. So they let just enough through for you to know without a doubt that something is running, but it cuts the uglies out. Even my quieter JDS Dust Force, you knew it was running, but only slightly so.
So in conclusion these heaphones make loud machinery go from pain to pleasure. When you lift the headphones from your ears, you hear all kinds of racket, then you let them drop back on your ears and go aaaaahhhhh.
I know this sounds like a gloat, but do yourself a favor and get a pair of these. There are all kinds of links earlier in this thread. One of them is to Tiger Direct. Hey this isn't a great as finding an old never used PM66 for cheap, but it is a good substitute. Even at the extra 10 dollar price, it will save your ears, and give you pleasure working in the shop.

[Glen Blanchard]

I've been following this thread Bob. Not that I need anymore headphones either. Besides a few dozen cheap earbuds laying about the house, I own a pair of Ultimate Ears earbuds (fairly high-end, noise isolating earbuds) and also a pair of Bose QC II's. I love them both and have been using the Ultimate Ears in the shop lately. Being a sucker for a good deal, after seeing your post here, I ordered 2 pair of the Logitechs. My wife said that she would like to have a set since they were such a good deal and I figured at $39.99, I'd just order a second pair for the heck of it. I'll give them a test run in the shop when they arrive. Thanks for the heads-up.

[Roger Wilson]

A couple of questions:

--one of the Amazon reviews said that without music the Logictech headphones themselves make a very loud noise. Have you found this to be true ?

--have you worn the headphones when driving ? I've found the general highway road noise in a car to be as problematic as the noise in an airplane. I'd like to be able to drive safely (hear horns etc.) but without the road noise.

Thanks

[Al Willits]

I'm a little cautious of the units that do anything but reduce dB's, you'd be supprised how easy it is to get the headphone units high enough in volume to do harm.
Not to fond of Bose either, but whatever floats your boat.

For extended runs like with the planer or joiner I'll use the foam ear plugs rated at 31 dB reduction, for day to day stuff I have a couple of pair of muffs from shooting I wear, they are electronic but I just leave them off, reduction is rated at 27db's.

Damage from loud noises is afaik irreversable, be careful.

Al

[Bob Feeser]

Roger Wilson, A couple of questions:

--one of the Amazon reviews said that without music the Logictech headphones themselves make a very loud noise. Have you found this to be true ?
Ans: He must have a defective pair. The Mac World review gave them an excellent on both hiss levels, which these have none, and many others do have, and on sound pressure, which noise cancelling creates, but these do so with an excellent rating, as in not a problem

--have you worn the headphones when driving ? I've found the general highway road noise in a car to be as problematic as the noise in an airplane. I'd like to be able to drive safely (hear horns etc.) but without the road noise.
Ans: I believe it is against the law to wear headphones while driving for safetys sake. Please see the thread I just posted about which types of sounds it blocks, and which it doesn't.