Started to build a cyclone

[Keith Beck]

Ken,

I've been following this thread with a lot of interest. Oddly enough, I just realized you're in my neck of the woods. Can't wait to see the finished product and hear how it performs.

Nice work so far!

Keith

[Ken Harrod]

Ken,

I've been following this thread with a lot of interest. Oddly enough, I just realized you're in my neck of the woods. Can't wait to see the finished product and hear how it performs.

Nice work so far!

Keith

I was hoping the thread would prove to be helpful to some people.

I broke down and orderd the impeller from Clear Vue. No email yet on when I can expect the shipment. Should have ordered sooner.

Looking at the pictures of the clear view blowers and pictures of their impeller, it looks like their impeller is designed to rotate counter clockwise,when looking at the blade side of the impeller, the same as the Jet and Sheldon's impellers referenced in Bill's pages. That's good news, cause I won't have to make mirror images of the pieces for the blower. I am sure Murphy's Law would hit and I would screw it up.

I called up Emerson Motors and asked about my motor. The guy said it rotated counter clockwise when looking at the shaft end of the motor. Good news. The motor spins the correct direction for the impeller. Apparantly, this motor was originally sold for an Ingersol Rand air compressor. I am happy with that. They make good stuff.

The problem I now have is rescaling the drawings for the larger impeller. One part of Bill's website says to upscale them by 107%, another part says the 14" blower plans will work for as is for a 15" impeller, another part says to increase the radius of the spiral by 1/2". I am not sure which if the three is correct. I shot off an email to clarify. I will post here with the answer.

Last night I spent about an hour out there with my disk sander with some 60 grit sandpaper smoothing out all the solder joints. The disk sander made quick work of it. With all those solder globs sanded down and smoothed out, it looks a lot better. My soldering was a big "rough" to say the least in a few places. I might go back and use a little auto body filler to help feather out the seams to hide them so the final paint job has a nicer finish. That's purely cosmetic and I am not sure if it is worth the effort.

[Chris Holder]

I was hoping the thread would prove to be helpful to some people.

I broke down and orderd the impeller from Clear Vue. No email yet on when I can expect the shipment. Should have ordered sooner.

Looking at the pictures of the clear view blowers and pictures of their impeller, it looks like their impeller is designed to rotate counter clockwise,when looking at the blade side of the impeller, the same as the Jet and Sheldon's impellers referenced in Bill's pages. That's good news, cause I won't have to make mirror images of the pieces for the blower. I am sure Murphy's Law would hit and I would screw it up.

I called up Emerson Motors and asked about my motor. The guy said it rotated counter clockwise when looking at the shaft end of the motor. Good news. The motor spins the correct direction for the impeller. Apparantly, this motor was originally sold for an Ingersol Rand air compressor. I am happy with that. They make good stuff.

The problem I now have is rescaling the drawings for the larger impeller. One part of Bill's website says to upscale them by 107%, another part says the 14" blower plans will work for as is for a 15" impeller, another part says to increase the radius of the spiral by 1/2". I am not sure which if the three is correct. I shot off an email to clarify. I will post here with the answer.

Last night I spent about an hour out there with my disk sander with some 60 grit sandpaper smoothing out all the solder joints. The disk sander made quick work of it. With all those solder globs sanded down and smoothed out, it looks a lot better. My soldering was a big "rough" to say the least in a few places. I might go back and use a little auto body filler to help feather out the seams to hide them so the final paint job has a nicer finish. That's purely cosmetic and I am not sure if it is worth the effort.

Great work, Ken. I can't wait to hear how it works for you. As for the paint, if your like me, shop furniture is as important to you as your other furniture. Make it look great and you won't regret it (in fact, you will probably drag would be guests out to see it). Remember, you'll be looking at this monster quite a bit.

[Chris Padilla]

Nice work, Ken!

I built a cyclone as well:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=9933

However I cheated a bit and used a pre-cut kit!

[Ken Harrod]

Nice work, Ken!

I built a cyclone as well:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=9933

However I cheated a bit and used a pre-cut kit!

I read all through your thread last week. It was helpful. I think the snap-lock feature the premade kit had would really make it a lot easier to put together the cylinder and the cone.

Total, I probably only spent about 3 hours laying out and cutting the pieces. It turned out to be a lot easier than I thought. Either that, or I am too dumb to realize I did it all wrong.

I place my order with ClearVue today, and got a shipping confirmation email from UPS today for my impeller. It should be here Wednesday. That's pretty impressive service.

[Ken Harrod]

I was over complicating the plans for the blower housing. They are drawn for a 14" impeller, but I am going to be using the 15" ClearVue impeller.

Once I dumbed it down to my level, it all made sense. The plans show the lines for both the top and bottom of the blower housing along with a bunch of other reference lines. All those lines were getting me confused. I was thinking I was going to have to recale every number on there by 107%. But then I realized, only the spiral for the metal sides really mattered.

I opened the plans in MS Paint, and used the eraser tool, A BUNCH. I basically only left the spiral for the sheet metal sides, a circle showing the edge of the impeller, and what will end up being the edge of the MDF.

There is a 5/8" diameter circle at the center of the blower plan, but there is nothing that references it to tell you what that circle is for. I was thinking maybe it was for the diameter of the Harbor Freight motor, since it is 5/8" (I think). But all the motors Bill recommends have a 7/8" shaft. So, WTF ???

It's real simple... The spiral radius that makes up the edge of the blower housing will increase by 1/2" for every 90 degrees. If you work out the equation for the circumference of a circle, you find out that (roughly) a 5/8" diameter circle has a 2" circumference (or 1/2" every 90 degrees).

Stay with me, I am getting to the point...

If you have a 5/8" diameter object (I used a 1/2" quarter inch drive socket) and wrap a string around it that is tied to a pencil at the other end, as you draw a "circle" around the center point, you will end up getting a spiral that increases in diameter by 2" for each 360 degrees.

So, to draw the spiral just adjust the length of that string so it matches the length you need at one point on that spiral, and just draw a "circle" letting the string wind (or unwind depending on direction) around the object in the center with a 5/8" diameter.

I assume everyone has a socket set, so just dig through it and find one with a 5/8" outside diameter. To make that easier, take a 5/8" open end wrench and use that to gauge the size of the outside of the sockets.

To adapt the plan for a 15 " impeller, all you need to change the starting radius of the spiral by 1/2". The plans recommend for the outside edge of the MDF to be 1" outside the spiral, although if it was larger, I don't see an issue. The inlet to the blower is centered on the impeller, and it's diamter will be the same as the outlet of the cyclone. So, that item in the plan does not change. The motor plate can probably remain the same size. It is on the plans as 16" in diameter, so that still gives 1" extra to the width of the 15" impeller. Once my impeller arrives in the mail, I will double check it, but I think the 16" opening will work OK.

The blower outlet (7" wide) was picked based on the cross sectional area of 8" ducting and a readily available 8" HVAC transition. So, I did not want to mess with making that dimension different, so I just left the opening the same.

Tonight or tomorrow, I plan on cutting out the top and bottom pieces for the blower housing. UPS says my impeller should be here tomorrow.

[Ken Harrod]

The two halves for the blower body are started. I need a hole in each still. One for the inlet the other for the motor plate.

[Ken Harrod]

cyclone 12.jpg

cyclone 13.jpg

[Ken Harrod]

UPS arrived this morning with my impeller.

I picked up some 18 gauge metal at a local sheet metal shop for the sides of the blower housing. I did not feel like trying to cut 18 gauge by hand, plus I was worried about getting the cuts straight. I gave them the dimensions and they cut it, and gave it a roll all for $18. All I had to do was make the bend where the outlet meets the spiral on the inside.

To accurately measure the length of sheet metal I needed, I tied a knot at one end of a string, then poked it into the slot the sheet metal would go into. I pushed the string in all the way around till I got to the other end of the outlet. I marked the string with a marker, then pulled the string out and measured it. I added 1/2" so the sheet metal would stick out from the blower a little. I figured a little sticking out would help to hook up the discharge transition.

Right now, I have the blower housing assembled. I still need to make up my motor plate and motor mount. Not positive how I am going to make those parts, yet. Since my motor does not have a C-Face, I cannot mount my like the plans show.

I also tested the motor today. I temporarily hooked up some 10/3 Romes to my 30 Amp 220 Volt breaker and pluged it in. Shut the breaker for a second, verified motor turned (and which direction). It does spin the correct direction for the CV impeller.

I will take some close-ups of the impeller and the "compression" fitting for mounting it to the motor. That mount was the part that I had the most questions about. I couldn't visualize what was being described on Bill's webpages. This thing is really very simple. I am not sure why the same type of thing doesn't work for the Jet impeller. I wish I could sit both side by side to see the difference. Oh, well. I have the better bigger one. No need for ever getting the Jet one now.

I do not have a key that goes in the key way slot, so I need to make another trip to the BORG sometime this evening.

It looks like I should have it finished and mounted, ready for testing this weekend.

[Ken Harrod]

DSC_5595.JPG

Here is the fan. The box smelled of fresh paint when I opened it. It sure looks nice. Not sure how long it will stay that way, though.

cyclone 14.JPG

This is the compression arbor that Bill keeps stressing is so important. Basically, that black piece in the middle has a slot in it. The outside of it has a slight taper to it. When the 3 allen head screws on the flange are tightened, it pulls the fan and that arbor together, which will cause the inside of the arbor to get smaller, since the outside has a taper to it. It's basically a wedge. Here is a link to a place that sells a bushing with the same idea. That item is what I had been looking at to possibly make the Jet Impeller work. I think the same type of thing would work with the Jet impeller, as long as you could get the split taper bushing with the correct outside diameter to match the Jet Impeller. Then, you might need to drill the flange on the bushing to match up with the bolt holes on the Jet Impeller. I never could find a scaled drawing of the Jet Impeller with those dimensions to figure out if there was a split taper bushing that would work. If I could have found that drawing, I could have bought the $70 Jet impeller, that $9 split taper bushing and saved myself $120.

cyclone 15.JPG

This is the back side of the impeller. This is the side the motor would be on.

cyclone 16.JPG

Finally, here is the impeller with the arbor removed.


Three of the holes are taped the other three are not. The three that are not taped have a larger diameter. I guess they were for using regular bolts with nuts.

There is also a small allen head set screw that goes above the key. I guess it is to put pressure on the key to keep it from coming out? I am not sure. I still need to go and get the key.

The design of this compression fitting makes it pretty easy to set the fan blade exactly where you want it on the motor shaft.

The bushing has 3 taped and 3 untaped holes. If you want to remove the impeller from the shaft, you remove the 3 allen screws, and then thread them into the taped holes of the arbor. As you tighten them down, they push on the hub of the impeller and push the impeller and bushing apart, undoing the "wedge" and allowing you to easily remove it from the shaft. I thought that feature was pretty cool.

[Jim O'Dell]

Great progress, Ken! Sounds like you are doing a great job. Can't wait to see the final product.
One question...Are you going to use the spray on rubber stuff that Bill Pentz talks about, or just stay with the galvanized sheet metal? Jim.

[Ken Harrod]

Great progress, Ken! Sounds like you are doing a great job. Can't wait to see the final product.

Thanks. It's coming along pretty good. It definitely could use a little more "craftsmanship", but that is all cosmetic.

One question...Are you going to use the spray on rubber stuff that Bill Pentz talks about, or just stay with the galvanized sheet metal? Jim.

I am not sure I know what you are talking about.

Are you talking about on the inside of the upper cylinder to reduce the "sand blasting" of the sheet metal where the stuff first enters?

For that, I have a sheet of 1/8 or 1/16 rubber that I am going to glue to the inside of the upper cylinder at the start of the air ramp.

or

Are you talking about where some people used the pickup truck bedliner spray stuff? I think this was done for reducing the noise. I think I remember reading that it had little effect.

I expect that shortly after getting the cyclone mounted and running, I will try making a muffler as shown on a few different pages. I don't know how loud this will be. I have seen lots of cyclones in pictures of people's shops with no mufflers or "sound proof" rooms. So, that makes me believe the sound from them is not too bad. But, I have seen a lot of posts about the cyclones being noisy. Hopefully, I will know by the end of the weekend which appplies to mine.

[Ken Harrod]

DSC_5605.JPGDSC_5604.JPGDSC_5603.JPG

OK, here is the blower housing so far. This thing is HUGE. I saw the dimensions on the plans, but did not really think of how big that is. The one picture has a standard 12" rule on it. I think at the widest point, it is 27" across. Since it is a spiral shape, it is a different measurement depending on where you mesaure it.

The motor is just sitting there right now. I have some scraps of MDF sitting around it, mocking up the mount. I was thinking of a U shaped support made of 3/4 ply. The motor will sit there just fine resting on it's nose. The mount really would be to prevent any twist when the motor first starts.

[Ken Harrod]

OK, I think I spent more time making the motor mount and hanging this thing that I did building it.

Right now, I have just "temporarily" hooked up the electrical parts. I think I am going to mount a switch between the two doors to the right, or just above that laundry sink. I just wanted to get some power to it and fire it up to see if it works. With the cyclone hooked up, it is much quieter than it was with just the blower. It was only pulling about 15 amps. With just the blower (no cyclone attached) it was pulling about 25 amps, until I restricted the inlet. I don't have any way to measure the airflow, though.

Next, I need some 6" flex, a bunch of 6" S&D pipe, blast gates, and fittings.

Sorry about the bad pics. I only had my cell phone out there with me.
SSPX0177.jpg

SSPX0178.jpg

[Jim O'Dell]

Ken, the rubberized mat glued in should work fine. Yes the sandblasting effect is what I was talking about. The truck spray in bedliner on the inside would be ideal. Would probably have to make the cyclone slightly larger to keep the size right after the liner material was sprayed in. That stuff is really tough! But your idea should work fine. Nice job! Looks great. I see you chose a right side intake for your situation. I know Clear Vue makes intakes on either side, depending on what you need for your shop. Mine is on the left. Get that motor anchored down and keep at it! Jim.