making money at woodworking

[Stephen Edwards]

For whatever it's worth, I'm with David on this one. In order to make money, as a small shop or one person operation, with woodworking you MUST offer something unique and of value and find the market that's willing to pay for it. Since you're hoping to do this after retirement, what the heck, don't be afraid to ask for the high price for your work if it's indeed unique.

For myself and developing my woodworking business as as a sideline business, it's as much about selling the image of yourself as it is the pieces that you make! There are many woodworkers much more skilled than I am but who don't get anywhere near the price for their work that I do. I'm not bragging, just explaining that you have to sell yourself as a unique craftsman to go along with your unique work. And of course, tapping into that market that can afford to layout the bucks for whatever it is that you want to do.

Forget competing with the big boys. Do your own thing, put your heart into it and you'll find a way to do what you want to do.

[Ray Schafer]

Just for clarity on my particular desires -- I am not looking to make a living, just make some money. If I could make about $10,000 to $20,000 a year in profit (in today's dollars), that would give me some walking around money.

[Karl Brogger]

I'm an idiot. I started off on my own just as the housing market around here was take the long trip down the xxxxpipe. I'm going to brag, I'm really fricken good at what I do. That isn't enough though. You need to have a niche and establish yourself. Getting a name is the hardest thing you can do. I'm five years in and people are just starting to know. The first year I was on my own I lost money. The second year I lost money. The third year I was a little ahead and hired my first employee. The fourth year would've been good, but I spent about another $25k on equipment. It's a good investment but I could've used the cash for fun things like eating/sleeping indoors. So far year five has sucked majorly. There is no work to be had by anyone in the area. Up to today I've done only two jobs of any size, both of which were still pretty small and we've only scraped up $17k worth of business, and I was hoping to break $200k this year (an almost 60% increase from last year). We have a severe saturation of small shops around also, which doesn't make anything easier.

If you're planning on doing it for just some extra cash my advice would be to get a part time job at a cabinet shop. I'm 27 years old and from working in the trades the last ten years, (plus some of the sports I have taken up in the past), my body is about shot. I dread delivery and install days. Especially on big jobs where I may fill my 16' enclosed trailer 2-3 times to get the cabinets there.

I went into this trying to make more money, not because I enjoy it. In fact I'm getting to the point now that I flat out hate it. I recently was offered a job from a builder that I used to work for to run their cabinet and millwork shop. I may take them up on it because I'm living in borderline poverty now. But, if you aren't counting on the income and you don't NEED it then I say go for it. Just don't spend too much money.

I've come to the conclusion that if a business, regardless of what it does, isn't growing it is dying.

Another thing I forgot to add. Quality has NOTHING to do with how much you pay for cabinets/furniture. I've found the more you charge the more people think they are getting. Granted I don't build crap and I don't think I charge too little or too much but what people really want is percieved value. The first thing I do when I do to a house for a bar or an entertainment center is look at what the people drive. If they have a decent house, but have a aged mini-van, and a rusty corolla then I know they aren't interested in what they want people to think of them. On the other hand if they have a Lexus and a BMW SUV chances are they want people to think they're important and wealthy, which most of the time they're way over their heads in debt. They are the ones who WANT to tell their friends they paid $20k for a bar or entertainment center.

[Bob Feeser]

I come across this topic from time to time, and there are those, including Dave who can advise you better than I. But I did go into the business for a short while. Made wainscoting for a bathroom in an upscale home, did a pair of oak doors, and some oak steps. The thing I was up against, was that I had to spend so much time designing, and everything I was building was a prototype. Also on individual projects is was:

1. Visiting the sawmill using the same amount of time, and fuel, whether I was doing a little project, or a big one, or better yet, several of the same project.
2. Setting up different router tables to get the registration perfect between all of the bits. e.g. cabinet doors.
3. Setting up for each stage, including sanding, refinishing, glue ups, etc.

The list goes on. With all of the prototype procedures with making a custom piece on every shot, I wound up making less money then I wanted to. I can see high end quality pieces, known by those who will pay for the quality, being an interesting way to go, but consider this.
If you look at the big boys, Ethan Allen, Wood Mode Custom Cabinetry etc. They are not really custom anything. They mass produce pieces. Why? Because of the economics of it. This country went through an industrial revolution, including Henry Ford, when people were taking mass production methods, and applying it to the trades that used to be all custom made, and very expensively.
So let's say you are making a line of entertainment centers. You design up a couple of models. Gain the advantage of perfecting that model with each build. You offer it in oak, walnut, or cherry and when you get several orders for the same model, you make them all at once. You save time on buying the materials, on design, on setting up the tools, on setting up for each stage of the procedure etc. Everything becomes economized, while still allowing you to do custom level work. If you look at some of the aforementioned manufacturers pieces, they are putting out a semi mass production piece, with a hand made feel to it. (More solid woods, and final stage finishing including ultra fine steel wool the cured last coat, and apply wax, for a hand rubbed feel. You also want a fancy name like to give it some style. This is not bull, or deceiving anybody, this is providing people with a quality product, hopefully being skilled enough in the art of marketing that you are getting a good price for it, and utilizing mass production to make it profitable, and worth your while. It is not unusualy to get $3500 for an entertainment center in three sections. If you got only 4 orders per month, and got used to building the same model, you could knock them out in about 2 weeks, and still have time to enjoy life.
As was mentioned earlier in the post, carrying heavy boards, or cabinets up and down steps, when you get into the more mature years is not exactly what you aspire to. I spent my youth building a body shop for 20 years and did all of that. Wound up with 11 employees, and did a lot of high end work. And like someone else posted, downsizing, getting involved yourself, instead of having to watch a lot of others is more profitable and less risk.
These are my thoughts. There is a lot of great information posted in this thread from others more experienced in this biz then myself, and I am half tempted to print it out and keep it for reference.

[Jack Clay]

I have got a chance to make projects for a local store that sells primitive items. I have never had a business so I am wondering how all of you do taxes IE tax numbers and income taxes. Do you get help with that part or do you keep track of it yourself. How much work is it to keep track of everything for taxies? This would be a side business with no intention of replacing my job.

[Mitchell Andrus]

Schedule C

[Will Blick]

Schedule C

Mitch, I finally checked out your web site..... all I can say is.... YOU HAVE A LOT OF TALENT, AND A LOT OF ENERGY!

Not sure if you have pioneered selling period pieces on the internet, but you sure have done it well. Is there many competitors doing this, or are you blazing the trail? Gosh, that is a LOT of work....

I think your approach is the wave of the future for niche ww's. Craft shows require too much travel and expenses. Bricks n Mortar stores have huge overhead and limited exposure. A niche line of ww products that can be easily shipped really does represent an oppt. that was not available to ww's in the pre-internet era. But as you suggest, learning the internet / web design, is one of the new business skills you must master, or if you have enough bankroll, pay someone... I was quite impressed by your web site. Its nice to see you can get fair prices for your work..


Of course, none of this applies to cabinet makers or built-in pieces..... this field will not change much, other than..... today, IMO, the key is installation, as in this modern era, you can find factories to buy your doors, drawer fronts, and even CNC shops to cut your carcasses. If I was to start a high end cabinet business today (hell there is no low-end market after the imports have saturated the market), I would perfect my ability to use the latest in 3d cabinet design software to properly design / sell a job. Then send the drawings to the big houses to buy the drawers boxes, drawer fronts, carcasses, etc. At most, I would have an assembly area...

My point is.... today, success in the high end market requires a new skill set.... these huge plants with automated machinery is no match for the small shop today. The key is selling and proper implementation of what was sold.... sorry for the ramble...