How do I put a fingernail grind on a normal spindle gouge?

[Joshua Dinerstein]

Hey Peoples,

I haven't posted in a while though I have been quite busy. Both turning and getting married. Amazing how the one cuts into the time of the other. I will leave it as an exercise for the reader to determine which one cuts into the time of the other...

I have made a few really nice bowls, read lots and lots of bowls and a few that I really think were great!, and had a lot of fun in the last year. But recently I started looking for more ideas of things to made and found a few shows with Dave Hout as the expert on the DIY TV network. This show fit the bill as it had some interesting ideas for things to turn and techniques to use. So I wanted to play!

But he uses a spindle gouge with a fingernail grind on it. This caught my attention as it looks very different than the ones that I have. Mine are what I believe to be the traditional spindle grind. I.e. when viewed from the top it looks flat and squared off but when viewed from the side the proper bevel is present. When I sharpen it I place it in the jig and rotate the tool around the center of the shaft of the tool.

Now for sharpening my various gouges, including my bowl gouges, I have built my own copy of the sharpening "system" from Darrell Feltmate's "Around the Woods" website. (Pictures included!) So I put the base of the spindle gouges handle into the "pocket" on the base of the extendible arm and it sharpens up nicely.

This action however does not create the fingernail grind I saw and want to try out. For the bowl gouges I have to use the extra jig I made from the same website. It works very well for that and I have a very easy time putting a sweet edge on that gouge.

So I have been trying to work it out without butchering my spindle gouge and decided I would ask here for pointers and help rather than turning my gouge into the same gouge just several inches shorter. The 2 thoughts I had were:
1- Use a jig like the one for my bowl gouges. And sweep the handle back and forth in the same manner as the bowl gouge. But this could make the side edges very thin and weak if I am wrong.

or

2- Change the angle of the base support to a different probably longer angle and roll it back and forth in the same way I am now. But again this could produce a tool unusably thin.

So can anyone fill me in on it? How do I put a good usable fingernail grind on my spindle gouges.

Hummm... Just had a thought. I have a harbor freight not far from my house. I think I will go and buy a nice cheap set of their "9 tools for $9" and once I have an expert opinion here I will try that one first. That way if I screw it up I am out almost nothing and my good tools remain properly un-slaughtered.

Thanks,
Joshua

[Joshua Dinerstein]

Oh and I mentioned above the things I had turned so here are some pics of those...

I did some spalted maple bowls as candy dishes for the family parties we had this last Christmas. They turned out pretty well. I was still doing pretty straight walls at the time but they look good, I love the spalting and they were seriously fun to make! Which is of course the key.

I tried to make a matching set of these and I made a simple 3/5 card paper pattern of the angle on the outer wall. It worked pretty well though I did have a wider base on the second one than the first. That just never occurred to me before I actually did it. Hey we live and we learn!

Joshua

[Joshua Dinerstein]

This is a lidded box I did as a jewelry box for one of my nieces for Christmas. In the end I made a number of these one for each of my 4 nieces and then my sisters and sisters-in-law. Who knew they would be that popular.

This one was made out of Honey Locust. Quite a pretty wood with a lovely grain to it.

Joshua

[Jim Underwood]

How 'bout a picture of your spindle gouge?

[Bruce Pennell]

Joshua when I did my bowl gouge I ground a little off the top about 1 1/4 back, set the angle I wanted and placed it in my jig, ground a little at a time, so as not to over heat the steel. Keep a little water to cool it with. The sides take the longest to grind. Lots of steel to get rid of. I copied Bill Grumbines grind. You might google fingernail grind or Eilsworth grind to see if a certain angle is needed, I just eye balled mine. I like that grind when I get closer to finish, but like my standard 1/2" Doug Thompson bowl gouge for roughing. Just got a Ci1 roughing tool put into a handle yesterday (love it so far), Craig Jackson makes a qualitiy tool, plus no sharpening! Just replace a $14 cutting head every 10-15 bowls (haven't had it long enough even to turn a edge yet). I will review the tool after I get a 12 or so bowls under my belt and get a feel for it. It was the easiest tool to learn I've ever picked up. No riding the bevel, did a small bowl last night (1st project) with the Ci1, speed and ease of use 100% great. My bowl and roughing gouges might be sitting lonely on the shelf for a while.
Sorry I've only used a fingernail grind on my one bowl gouge. Hope this helps...Bruce

[Jim Becker]

Because of the metrics involved with the shallow spindle gouges, you need a very different angle than the one shown in the picture on your grinding jig to make it work out. I use the OneWay VariGrind to do this work with the 2 finger nail ground spindle gouges I own. (They didn't start out that way) The tip angle is very shallow compared to a bowl gouge with a side-grind, for example, so you need the tool to ride higher on the wheel, yet be able to crank it around to create and maintain the "finger nail" profile. You also need a delicate touch because it's very easy to take off a lot of metal very fast!

Even if you want to make your own jig, try to check out a VariGrind or similar at a store or someone else's shop so you can see how it needs to be configured for these tools.

And BTW, welcome to SMC!

[Joshua Dinerstein]

How 'bout a picture of your spindle gouge?

Alright. I will take one tonight. I hadn't intended to post about it and then got to thinking about it will sitting here at my desk eating lunch and decided too. The rest of the pics were ones I had here on my computer.

I will post it as soon as I get a chance to take a snap and upload it.

Thanks,
Joshua

[Gordon Seto]

In addition to what Jim said. You have to know what you want on the shape of your grind. Different flute shape would yield different grind even at the same jig setting.
The jig can only help you repeat the grind with minimal steel wear, you still have to control where to take off more and when to stop.
Hook up with your local club and try out other members' gouges before wasting your good steel.
AAW Local Chapter Listing - The American Association of Woodturners

[Curt Fuller]

I've never used a sharpening jig, mostly because I learned to sharpen freehand before I knew there were jigs. But there is a link on Youtube that shows how Johannes Michelson teaches how to grind a gouge. It made me feel good that I actually stumbled into my process and it was very similar to how a professional would do it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wevTPeJoOrs

This works well for any fingernail type grind whether it's a spindle gouge or a bowl gouge.

There are good jigs for it too, but this is a way to do it freehand.

[Joshua Dinerstein]

Alright. I got brave and figured why not give it a while. The worst I could do was shorten a tool a bit.

So I went back to the AroundTheWoods website and the plans and explanation for the jigs I had made and found a reference there to a 30 degree angle jig that Darrell was using for spindles. Constructed much the same way my current 45 degree one was made.

So I started cutting and sawing and the end result was a 30 degree jig of the right length and size. And off I went. Mounted the new tool using the same markings I have for my bowl gouge in terms of length of stick out and aligning top to top at the depth of the jig. (i.e. Early on I had problems with the tool being twisted to the jig and that messing up my grinds.)

Wow! it is... interesting to grind that much steel off of a tool. This is my first real reshaping job. I have sharpened a ton over the last year but never really remade a tool. As I was doing it I worried about the angle being to steep. It really produced a LONG bevel.

I must say however that I love this new tool. It took a bit of practice to even start with it, and I still have a ways to go, but I started with a scrap spindle piece of maple and making some beads on it and it is SO much easier! So needless to say I like the new grind.

Thanks to all who had suggestions for me! I will take a photo of the new grind and post it up. I meant to do it with the old one but my new wife hid the old camera (she calls it cleaning up but....

Thanks again,
Joshua