rehabbing planes/saw - equipment/chemicals needed

[Thomas Crawford]

I've read a lot of the threads on here and around the web, so I have the general idea of what to do. What I'm looking for is specific recommendations on the tools and chemicals/equipment/etc that I need to do the job.

I need a recommendation on whether or not I need a bench grinder, and if so what is an affordable bench top model.

Second is what chemicals to get and where - phosphoric acid, whatever this blue paste is that rust-proofs the tools. Basically trying to save money so looking for what brands and where to buy.

The tutorials are great but I haven't found one that starts with a list of what you actually need before you start.

[Dominic Greco]

I've read a lot of the threads on here and around the web, so I have the general idea of what to do. What I'm looking for is specific recommendations on the tools and chemicals/equipment/etc that I need to do the job.

I need a recommendation on whether or not I need a bench grinder, and if so what is an affordable bench top model.

Second is what chemicals to get and where - phosphoric acid, whatever this blue paste is that rust-proofs the tools. Basically trying to save money so looking for what brands and where to buy.

The tutorials are great but I haven't found one that starts with a list of what you actually need before you start.

I'd start with a good quality 8" dual speed bench grinder. This you can use for restoring edges and re-grinding the primary bevels on irons.

For rust removal I would reccomend Evaporust. I've used it for 3 or 4 plane restorations and so far I've been VERY impressed. This you can get at Harbor Freight stores for about $9 a quart (I think thats the container size). You need a basin, a funnel, and some paint filters. The basin for soaking your planes, and the funnel/filters for recycling the solution. You can use it 2 to 4 times before it looses it's "oomph". Another solution to use is Citric Acid. But I haven't tried that yet.

To clean up those steel surfaces after you've soaked them, you could use a brass brush. Have a drill press or a lathe? You could then use a brass or steel wire wheel brush as sold by Lowes or Home Depot. You install one of these brushes into the chuck and it'll clean off the rust pretty well. I also use one in my Dremel for those hard to reach places. Be sure to wear a dust mask and eye protection when using them thought!

Having a can of PB Blaster and WD-40 around is a must for getting rusted in place bolts free. Also, I would suggest a can of 3-in-1 oil for treating the steel surfaces after you remove the rust. Unless they are protected, steel surfaces will start rusting immediately after you clean them. DAMHIKT!

I prefer to have a Scrary Sharp system for flattening the back of irons and the occasional plane bottom. I have an 11" wide x 28"long x 3/8" thk piece of glass that I use specifically for flattening the bottoms of planes.

That's about it for me. I'm sure others will chime in.

[Carlos Cabrera]

This is my opininon and only mine. I like the citric acid, I usually pour in a hand full in a bucket of hot water from the tap or some type of container. It depends on what you are soaking but you should watch it closely as if you leave it in the solution too long it may damage the part, you should stir the solution every once in awhile and you can even brush the parts a little to help the process along. Then you have to brush all the black residue off the part and immediately wash it off with water and use WD-40 to stop the rusting. This works great for me again but again this is my opinion. I am not interested in collecting tools so I am biased in that aspect.

I also use a 3m flap wheel on a slow speed motor to clean off the individual parts and a scotchbrite wheel to shine up the metal. This also works great for me, I clean up all my chisels and planes with it.

I have also used a drill press with a wire wheel to get into tight places.

Hope this helps,
Carlos

[Bill Houghton]

Before bench grinders, people used coarse stones to work nicks out of their blades; took a long time. A good small bench grinder will save time.

I use SOS pads and warm water, followed by WD-40, to clean up tools. You don't get a shiny new tool, but you do get a serviceable one. The WD-40 is also useful when you encounter stuck screws.

You do need some kind of sharpening method. I use oilstones because that's what was around when I started out and I've never had enough money to nor been motivated to change, but this is remarkably like discussions of Homelite vs McCullough, Ford vs Chevy*, etc. - there are proponents of oilstones, waterstones, ceramic stones, sandpaper on a flat surface, diamond paste, diamond stones, and I'm sure other approaches I've failed to list. Sandpaper on a flat surface is probably the least expensive way to start out, but it's got a higher continuing cost than other approaches. Read the various arguments. If you go to a woodworking show, haunt the sharpening-related booths; if there's a woodworking club in your area, attend some meetings and ask questions (and, if you can, visit members to try out their approaches). Finally, recognize that (a) all the approaches work, and the issue is not finding the perfect one but finding one that works, (b) learning how to sharpen well is more important than using the perfect method [which doesn't exist], and (c) over time, as with everything else, your understanding will grow.

*Showing my age: these were the classic never-ending debates of my youth, now rather silly in a world where Homelite, McCullough, Ford, and Chevy are just some players in an environment with lots of other names; and particularly when there's a prospect that "Chevy" will become, like Hudson, a name of the past.

[Thomas Crawford]

thanks for the initial responses - just wanted to note that I'm planning on using every tool I buy at this point. Also I have a combination of sandpaper and waterstones for sharpening.

So are the various types of scotch brite pads a substitute for a bench grinder?

[Thomas Crawford]

Also any brand suggestions for a grinder would be great - I see a 6" variable-speed Delta at the borg for $82.

[Richard Niemiec]

Frankly, I've never used any chemicals or electrolysis or anything close to either to clean up a plane, and believe me I've turned some rustbuckets into very servicable planes. Same for saws. First, take the plane apart and get some spray on degreaser and clean up the item with nylon brushes, the small ones, so you don't screw up the japanning that remains. I've found that with heavy rust, take a good quality stiff scraping type of putty knife, put a sharp edge on it, and take it to the sole, cheeks or saw blade and scrape off the heavy rust. I follow that with judicious use of brass and/or steel brushes, perhaps a wheel on the grinder for difficult areas, scotchbrite and steel wool. Wire wheel all rust off of the screws. For saws, if possible I remove the handle, and I use a single edge razor blade in one of them blade holders to scrape off the rust putting the saw blade on a flat surface so as not to deform it, followed by scotchbrite or steel wool. If you want bright metal, then go thru grits of wet dry sandpaper with mineral spirits on the flat metal, but I never do this with saws and maybe once or twice on planes as I just don't like the look and it adds nothing to the operation of the tool. Paint drops, use mineral spirits to soften and then pick off with a small knife point or an ice pick. Totes and knobs, mineral spirits first, then 0000 steel wool with mineral spirits and then buff the remaining finish with some tripoli on a buffing wheel and a final wipe with mineral spirits, you'll be pleasantly surprised at the result. I generally don't refinish the wood. When reassembling the plane, a drop of 3inOne oil on the screw threads is a good idea. Be sure to tune the chipbreaker and check all the mating surfaces. A coat of wax on all fresh metal surfaces. Piece of cake. A lot less time than soaking in whatever, but then again, to each his own, this works for me.

Oh, do yourself a favor and get an 8" grinder like Dominick suggests, you'll be very, very glad you did.

[Ken Werner]

I've had a Delta 6" VS grinder. It was ok. I now have the Woodcraft 8" slow speed grinder, which I like better. On sale, you can sometimes find it for about $80, with free shipping. It comes with 2 white stones which a very good. Scotchbrite pads are for cleaning up sides and parts, not for grinding your primary bevel. It would be best if you can find a mentor to show you proper grinding technique. It's simple, but so much easier to learn if shown in process.

[Justin Green]

Find a 3M scouring pad-type wheel for the grinder or I drill press. I found one for the drill press that looks like a balled up 3m pad. It works well for removing rust and grime and the one I bought was not very agressive, so it did not remove much metal unless you applied lots of pressure for a longer period of time.

I still need to find a decent way to hold small parts while cleaning...

[David Keller NC]

Thomas - I'm getting the feeling that you're buying the re-habbing supplies before you actually have the tools to re-hab. If so, kudos to you - it's rare for me to plan something that far ahead!

One comment, though - be careful what you re-hab. There's absolutely nothing wrong with re-habbing a Stanely #5 plane from the sweetheart era, but it would be well worth your time to learn a bit about the collector's market if you're going to aquire your tools from estate sales, flea markets, etc... There's still a great deal of "$3 specials" that are cases of the seller not knowing what they have, and even some Stanley tools from the sweetheart era can be worth thousands of dollars because of their rarity.

I say this only because there's probably not many among us that wouldn't feel like they just shot the goos that laid the golden eggs if we took a wire brush to a pristine, untouched Stanley #1 with a SW mark (and yeah, as stupid as it sounds, that's worth easily $2000 on the collector's market).

[Thomas Crawford]

Here's what I have to do:

1) little rust and cleanup on a type 11 stanley #5 and #7.
2) little rust on a Disston #4 backsaw
3) little rust on a Disston D-8

I've just picked them up on ebay and from woodnet so far.

These are all in decent condition, although the #7 hasn't shown up yet. I understand the sharpening process (just got a GREAT deal on some Norton stones on woodnet) - but mainly trying to figure out the preventative rust and polishing methods. I don't want everything super shiny since I'm going to use it, just want to get rid of the rust and keep them in usable condition.

[Bill Houghton]

I still need to find a decent way to hold small parts while cleaning...

Vise Grips can be a bit hard on the parts - crush stuff. You might search for "hand vise" on eBay. These were designed for this very purpose - holding small parts while working on them - and can be very convenient.

For this purpose, the simple pivoting-jaw type (see, for instance, item 270369740384 on eBay as of this date) may be better, because less bulky, than the machinist's type (see, for second instance, item 120402959010 on eBay as of this date), although the machinist's type has the virtue of a broader adjustment range, generally (and they can be rigged up to mount to your benchtop, something I've never had occasion to do with mine). Prices for the first type seem to hover around $10, although someone's making a modern knockoff for about $6. I'd go for an older one, if it was in good shape.

If you're concerned about parts damage, go to a sheet metal shop and see if you can beg a scrap of lead sheet. You can squash this in the jaws, and it'll compress more easily than the part. Wear gloves and wash your hands after using - while it's probably not easy to get much lead in your system this way, lead poisoning's no fun. Alternatively, and probably more safely, you could cut little scraps of pine as jaw facing. Make several sets while you're in production mode - they'll get torn up - and devise a simple way to hold them on the jaws (double stick tape, especially the foam kind that you can get in office supply stores*, comes to mind).

*Old guy lament: in my youth, this is the kind of thing for which you would go to a dime store ("five and ten" or "five and dime" in my wife's part of the country), which stores could be found in about every neighborhood. Now you have to drive to the one office supply store in your city, if you're lucky to have one, and probably encounter someone who looks blank when you ask about anything specialized. Grump grump grump.

[Bill Houghton]

just want to get rid of the rust and keep them in usable condition.

Furniture wax is your friend here. Wax every surface you can reach. Furniture wax, not auto wax, which contains fine abrasives. This has the added advantage that everything will operate more smoooothly, and your plane will glide over the wood like it's on ball bearings.

[Richard Niemiec]

I still need to find a decent way to hold small parts while cleaning...

I use a small sized vice grip with curved jaws, set the jaws just enough to grab the part and use lightly on the wheel, which you want to do anyway as over brushing is not a good thing. I used to wrap them smaller parts in a rag and then vice grip them, but it didn't seem to make any difference.

rn

[David Keller NC]

"1) little rust and cleanup on a type 11 stanley #5 and #7.
2) little rust on a Disston #4 backsaw
3) little rust on a Disston D-8"

Thomas - No worries with whatever you want to do with the Stanleys, including removing all of the patina and making them shiny - Type 11s, while superb tools, are only collector's items if they're near new in the original box.

The Disstons are also unlikely to be collector's items if you bought them on fleabay and paid a fairly low price - the exposure on the 'bay means that collector's items generally do not go unnoticed.

However, if you want to date them, you should check out the Disstonian Institute, which has a dating chart and pictures of the blade etchings, handle styles and medallions.

One comment about the saws - do not use a wire brush, scotchbrite pad, or any other abrasive or chemical rust remover on them if you want to preserve the etch. Most of these methods will expeditiously and permanently remove the blade etch. Instead, and only if it really needs it (a small amount of surface corrosion on a saw will have utterly no affect on their performance or ability to sharpen), use a metal scraper and some mineral spirits to clean the blade up. A decent metal scraper to use for this purpose is a single-edged razor blade with the corners slitghly sanded or filed to prevent them from scratching. You can also use an old cabinet scraper.

That won't result in a bright blade, but it will preserve the etch.