LV Made in China?

[Denny Rice]

Although I think Mr. Lee's explanation was a very good one I think it is arguable and most definitely sad.

It is true, that we should not blame China, we should blame companies that send their manufacturing oversees. But I wouldn't say "we demand and reward this behavior", because "we" don't have a choice.
I look at where everything I buy is manufactured. China is virtually on everything. It is nearly impossible to find some items still made in the USA.

Why is that? It is because of NAFTA and free trade agreements that were put into place. This allows companies to manufacture their goods in China or Mexico at a lower cost, due to labor being so cheap and no import tariffs. It allows companies to make a higher profit margin on their products.
It really is scouring the world for cheap labor, which I suppose we could call that capitalism, but I think greed would be a better term.

Maytag was the biggest manufacturer of appliances in the USA and they moved their manufacturing to Mexico....yet the cost of appliances to consumers didn't go down? Treager BBQ's recently did the same thing... you guessed it prices for their products did not drop. There are many, many other examples.

I would gladly, and do, pay more for items that are made in Western Europe or the USA and Canada. Sometimes I have no choice but I try. Do I have tools made in China? Of course. But I don't like it, and I definitely try to avoid it.

Hopefully I didn't offend anyone, but I just don't buy the capitalism argument. Now, all the people who were laid off need more services from the government...which, we end up paying for with more taxes. So I guess these companies got theirs - a higher profit margin due to lower labor costs and they stuck the bill to the American public all wrapped up in a package that gives the impression that it was necessary for good business practices and "lower prices".

I realize this may not be the case, in say for the forstner bits mentioned above and I believe in some instances like Mr. Lee outlined some companies have no other way to get their products made. But that is more of a product of where the USA is from a manufacturing standpoint as a result of free trade agreements.

Sad? Indeed.

Well said Nick........I agree completely. American business cries about production costs and how much cheaper they can sell their product if production is moved out of USA, then the price never moves. American Greed at its best.

[Brian J McMillan]

There is more to the import business than meets the eye. A friend of mine told me some of the ins and out of what you can get away with if your so inclined. He had an import business for over 10 years. He told me that if a company imported , lets say a saw blade from China. Say it cost him 1 dollar to land it in Canada. If he laser engraved his company logo on the blade and it cost him say .60 cents now his blade is up to $1.60. Now he puts the blade in a fancy package and that costs him $.50 for a total of $2.10. He has spent more than 100% of the total cost of the blade here in Canada. He is now legally entitled to put made in Canada or whatever country he is in on the blade.

He told me of a large European tool Co that does just that (there are probably plenty of companies doing this).

Granted the large companies have their own quality control guys in the plants in China keeping a close watch on what goes on with respect to their products.

In this day of global economies we the consumer are totaly in the dark.

[Kirk Smith]

This is capitalism in full swing, guys. Sellers find the ways to maximize the profit, consumers want to pay the least.
American companies have moved to china to find the way to maximize their profits. One thing that I have not seen in this discussion is the enviromental impacts to china or other third world countries where the north american companies build the factory there.
Besides to maximize their profits, these companies also avoid the headache of dealing with pollutions, environmental issues. It's priceless for these companies.
Let China and third world countries deal with that. But remember, it's a global economy now, and the pollution will be global too in the near future. The pure greeds have to pay sooner or later (just how the financial system in US is nearly collapsed last year).

[Bob Borzelleri]

There are some people who prefer to buy "locally" whenever possible. For better or worse, there are also countries of origin which have a reputation of technical quality, like Germany, Japan, Switzerland, etc. For those reasons, it makes sense to highlight the country of origin for those products for the simple reason that people may be more likely to purchase the product. Realistically, a high quality drill bit from Germany is probably going to sell better than an equal quality bit from Uzbekistan.

If the country of origin is not one of those "special" countries, then there is no real incentive to indicate the country of origin. I may be more likely to buy something made in Canada than in China, but it's not really a deciding factor if something is made in Indonesia instead of Pakistan.

To refuse to buy something just because of the specific country of origin is like hating someone just because they're from the USA. It's too much of a generalization.

Chris...

I think there might be less disagreement between us on this topic than misunderstanding of each others basic point. Or, maybe I would like to think that there is some agreement here. In that spirit, I'll give it one last shot.

I don't refuse to buy things from China as a generalization; remember the mandolin? As for a vendor choosing to highlight certain countries as the source of manufacturer and leaving the buyer in the dark for others, that simply raises more questions than it answers (I guess I'm repeating myself). If there is logic in making the distinction for developed countries than refusing to do so for developing countries flies in the face of that logic. To assert that this practice makes sense because an undeveloped country has not attained "special" status sounds like a true generalization.

I don't believe that a vendor should "have it both ways" when it comes to letting the buyer know where products come from. To specify some and generalize others conveys a message that is obtuse at best and a bit like hiding the ball at the other end of the disclosure spectrum.

To be clear, I like LV products and have purchased products from them that had various countries of origin, but as a result of this thread, I will be less likely to purchase products where the country of origin is known only to the vendor; not because I generalize about China, but because I believe I have a right to know where products I choose to buy are made. After all, there must be value in knowing or LV wouldn't specify some and not others (I guess we are back where we started).

[Jason Beam]

Has the bit been TRIED, yet?

[Rob Lee]

(Snip)

... I will be less likely to purchase products where the country of origin is known only to the vendor; not because I generalize about China, but because I believe I have a right to know where products I choose to buy are made. After all, there must be value in knowing or LV wouldn't specify some and not others (I guess we are back where we started).

Hi Bob -

That's not an issue with us - everything we sell is marked with country of origin, and for all American customers, is noted on the packing slip as well.

Our policy is to identify domestic product (NAFTA countries) for people that want to support their local economy. We will list other countries where/when relevant to the nature of the product... such as saying "the Turkish fire grill is made in Turkey" (most others are made in China...!)...

Cheers -

Rob

[Chris Friesen]

As for a vendor choosing to highlight certain countries as the source of manufacturer and leaving the buyer in the dark for others, that simply raises more questions than it answers (I guess I'm repeating myself). If there is logic in making the distinction for developed countries than refusing to do so for developing countries flies in the face of that logic. To assert that this practice makes sense because an undeveloped country has not attained "special" status sounds like a true generalization.

I guess I approach it a different way. I'm Canadian, so for me the fact that a product is made in Canada (or to a lesser extent in the USA) may well factor into my purchasing decision. (Support the local economy and all that.)

However, once I know that it's not "local" then I don't really care what country it's from. Assuming it meets the quality and factory condition standards they're all equal to me.

I don't think the distinction is between developed and undeveloped countries, but rather that certain countries have a reputation for quality. Nobody would argue that Australia or Portugal or Scotland is an undeveloped country, but they don't have the same reputation for precision that Germany and Japan do.

[Richard Niemiec]

Whew.....my eyes are tired from reading this entire thread.

I have one observation, and that is to congratulate Rob Lee for stepping into the middle of this thread and quite articulately expressing the reality of his "world" in managing supply chains. I know of no other company in this business (with such a broad product range) that is as committed to North American manufacture, be it in Canada or the USA. So, thank you Rob.

[fRED mCnEILL]

"I'm sorry but my point is that LV doesn't specify all countries. I happen to like to know where products are made, too. Being specific about developed countries and non specific about developing countries does not accomplish that."

Ummm, you could just ask. I'm sure they would tell you.

[Curt Harms]

Come on' you are talking about a country that puts Melamine in dog food, a country that puts Melamine in baby formula,
.......

Two guys recently got shot(executed) for the Melamine fiasco. Dunno if they were just fall guys or what.

[Bob Borzelleri]

"I'm sorry but my point is that LV doesn't specify all countries. I happen to like to know where products are made, too. Being specific about developed countries and non specific about developing countries does not accomplish that."

Ummm, you could just ask. I'm sure they would tell you.

The point is and always was a discussion of a company's policy about stating where things are made. LV opened the door by citing some countries of origin and not others.

These products are listed in catalogs and on websites. If some countries are being listed by those means, but not others, the customer should not have to call and ask what's what.

Again, the issue is that information is being provided in a selective manner for a purpose that doesn't appear to be to satisfy a customer's expectations of full disclosure of the place where the product was born (unless it was born in a country that is generally thought of as producing quality products).

Gee, I never thought that I could just ask. I guess I could also just blindly order and not care where things are made. Or maybe I could just order from HF and be sure where everything is made.

[Bill White]

Anybody remember the US made autos from the 60s and 70s?
Bill

[dan sherman]

How about they just put I giant note on the front page, that says if country of origin isn't listed the product is made in china.

[dan sherman]

Anybody remember the US made autos from the 60s and 70s?
Bill

You mean the ones with big rust holes in them, because they where made from sub par American steel?

Before someone lobs a grenade my way, I'm not saying all American steel is crap.

[Rod Sheridan]

Yes, which leaves us with the choice, do we pay a bit more and take responsibility for our actions or only consider price and avoid our obligations.

Regards, Rod