Sawstop brake activated

[John Callahan]

- To all of you who think such a mistake will not happen to you: good for you!

I'm not one of them ........... I went to the same "the hard way" school Karl did. If you think it won't happen to you, you've probably greatly increased the chances that it will. Should it have happened?-no ....... but by posting about about it you've saved others from the same fate.

[Al Willits]

Congradulations, you learned something the best way possible, the hard way.

Being a natural born idiot, I find that this trully is the only way to make thing stick. Its a method that has taught me many things.

-That sliding down pavement at high speed hurts.
-That 24oz long handle waffle face hammers will literally explode flesh when you miss that 6" ring shank barn nail.
-That screws don't disappear when going into material, they actually go through it. Works for nails pnuematic nails too. I'm still not sure about the hand driven nails.
-Band saws cut flesh really well, as do chisels. Come to think of it, so do coping saws.
-When testing the hardness of standing trees, its best not to use an ATV and your helmeted head.
-etc........

We all do stupid stuff. If you feel stupid, that's a good thing. If you don't, it means you didn't learn a damn thing, and that you are in fact stupid. But the more dumb things you do, and the more dumb you feel, the more diligent you are about thinking before acting, and that's pretty smart.

I'd add, joiner knifes can cut like crazy even when the units off.
Wiped out my band aid supply on that one.


I agree with no manufacture can add enough warnings to cover everything, a bit of common sense is in order along with maybe a learning curve.

Be responsible for your actions.

I find no fault with him wanting the manufacture to add a warning and I'd assuming the manufacture will, especially if its just a add to for a online manual.
Printed manuals may be a different deal though, how many times has this happened versus how much $ to change a printed copy?


I think "blame" might be taken as a bit harsh, and I think having a brain fart would work well.

Thanks for posting this and hopefully it will help keep the rest of more aware of what we're doing.

Al

[Harold Burrell]

Not that this will add much to the discussion, but...there is something that I want to say.

I for one could very easily see myself having done the very same thing here. Sorry...but I can see why and how he did this.

That said...I can also understand why he would be peeved. I would be too. I would be upset with SawStop for not warning me. I would be upset with the saw (because the built in safety feature is supposedly there to protect me...not itself). And I would be upset with me...for not seeing this coming.

Compound all of that with the expense.

Bottomline...I would have been ticked.

And I would like to think that I could come here and vent a little. And not be told I was stupid (since I would have already figured that out). Not be told that SawStop would not pay to fix it (Especially if I never mentioned that in my OP). And not be told that my idea of a warning label of some sort was unnecessary (methinks SawStop could and should decide that. Suggestions are just that..."suggestions").

Anyway...just my $.02...

[Rick Prosser]

I am glad for the posting. I have not unpacked my SS yet, and I hope I don't make some other mistake (stupid or otherwise), but I will remember (keep repeating....remember to remove knife...) if I need to add a ZCI in the future.

Just last night I turned on the lathe with the wrench in the chuck. That was just stupid on my part - no warning label required (btw - no damage)

[Roger Jensen]

My mistake. I now realize the one that ships with the saw has been pre-cut. I had assumed all of their ZCIs for the 10 inch saw were pre-cut, and you were working with the other ZCI for dado blades.

Days after the fact the issue is now clear. Please accept my apologies...

Roger

[mreza Salav]

Am I assuming correctly that you had a board clamped to the table top that prevented the riving knife from simply pushing the ZCI up, and therefore moved the riving knife into the blade?

The SS ZCI is different from others. Even the blank can be installed into place and it is held in place with a screw (no need to clamp anything).

[David DeCristoforo]

FWIW, I sent a link to this thread to Steven Gass. Maybe he will have something to contribute...

[Kevin Groenke]

We've had the same thing happen once or twice when raising the blade through stock to make blind cuts.

Since the riving knife is always there and almost never in the way, it's quite easy to forget to remove it when necessary. The trick is realizing what is causing the resistance when raising the blade and STOPPING before the riving knife gets pushed into the blade.

I agree that a sticker on in uncut zci would be a simple remedy and would probably save a few cartridges. I think SS owes us all a spare cartridge for sharing the idea with them. A note/warning in the manual probably wouldn't be much help as we don't all look in the manual every time we do something. If you think about what you're doing, it's obvious that it's not going to work.

I personally hope SS gives Mreza a replacement cartridge just for sharing his story and bringing attention to SS again.

-kg

[Brian Penning]

On another forum Sawstop is in fact trying to contact mreza. A nice post too I might add.
I'll let mreza(what's the name mean anyway?) post it.

[Howard Lesiuk]

I have been a member and dedicated lurker here for a couple of years now. I consider myself fortunate to have benefitted from the collective wisdom and experience of the many other members who post here. There are clearly quite a number of very skilled and experienced woodworkers who post. I have been reluctant to post thus far as I have seldom felt I had much useful to contribute ("...better to remain silent and be thought ignorant than speak and remove all doubt..."). I have tried to return some value to the forum by being a contributor and store customer. This thread has finally drawn me out.

I have just purchased a Sawstop PCS (and, yes, I guess that statement does technically constitute a stealth gloat) and will take delivery in one week. As I read the original post, it was immediately apparent to me that I would have been very likely to have repeated the mistake described and suffered the consequent psychological and financial penalties. Fortunately, having read about this unfortunate incident, there is now essentially no chance that this will happen to me. I am very grateful to mreza Salav for sharing this - thank you very much.

Cheers,
Howard Lesiuk

[mreza Salav]

Well I got a response form sawstop.
Since this post might get lost in the other replies I started a new thread
explaining it:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...63#post1280263

[Glen Butler]

We don't need warnings to protect ourselves from every conceivable mishap.
There is such a thing as common sense, and a manufacturer shouldn't have to pay because someone didn't use it.

The manufacturer never pays. We pay. It doesn't cost the manufacturer more without it costing us more. They aren't going let anything affect their bottom line. If we want a sticker, we should get the sticker. Shoot my $50 zero clearance insert now costs $50.05.

I imagine that most of the time a manufacture adds a warning label or something to the manual it is because it would cost them more not to do so. i.e. Legal Fees, lawsuits, government mandates and associated fines.

[Kevin Groenke]

How about a non-conductive riving knife? We use phenolic sheet for throat plates and the like, it's incredibly tough stuff (re-entry capsules for space flight are made of it). Polycarbonate might even do the trick.

They might require occasional replacement, but they wouldn't trigger the brake mechanism if they hit the blade for some reason.

Then again, the thought of a failed riving knife being kicked back is rather terrifying.... maybe not.

-kg

[M. A. Espinoza]

I don't visit too often but I stumbled on this thread.

Same thing happened to me and I am a woodworker by trade so its not exclusive to newbies. Happened towards the end of the day and I felt pretty close to how Harold did.

Ticked that I missed anticipating the problem and that that little sticker would have prevented it (an idiot sticker). I don't think I'm an idiot but I am capable of momentary lapses. Pretty much the reason I have the Sawstop, I'm careful but realize a lapse is possible. I've seen it happen to woodworkers and they weren't stupid.

Because in all my previous experience I had cut ZCI's on saws without shark fin riving knives I wasn't conditioned to the issue. After the brake activation I am certain I wouldn't repeat the mistake.

But I couldn't help but think that if it were something I produced and could see an easy mistake my customer could make I would place a reminder label to help keep them from making the error (if I couldn't design it out of the product).

It didn't cost me any blood so I wasn't going to make a Federal case out of it but its interesting to see how many people take the stance of "if you're stupid enough to have a car crash..."

Mistakes happen, doesn't mean their idiots. Pointing out that a simple sticker would have saved a lot of grief doesn't make that person someone that absolves themselves of all personal responsibility as some seem to imply.

Not that this will add much to the discussion, but...there is something that I want to say.

I for one could very easily see myself having done the very same thing here. Sorry...but I can see why and how he did this.

That said...I can also understand why he would be peeved. I would be too. I would be upset with SawStop for not warning me. I would be upset with the saw (because the built in safety feature is supposedly there to protect me...not itself). And I would be upset with me...for not seeing this coming.

Compound all of that with the expense.

Bottomline...I would have been ticked.

And I would like to think that I could come here and vent a little. And not be told I was stupid (since I would have already figured that out). Not be told that SawStop would not pay to fix it (Especially if I never mentioned that in my OP). And not be told that my idea of a warning label of some sort was unnecessary (methinks SawStop could and should decide that. Suggestions are just that..."suggestions").

Anyway...just my $.02...

[Ken Fitzgerald]

The tone of some of the posts here gets under my skin.

The only person who won't make a mistake now and then is somebody who isn't doing anything.

It takes a lot of courage to go public admitting your mistake so others might benefit from your less than stellar exprience.

Everybody who makes a mistake IS NOT an idiot. I've seen some really stupid mistakes performed by some really intellignent, well educated persons.

Often, companies will absorb from their profit, the minor expense of placing a label or other cheap change on something because it is a matter of customer satisfaction which could have an effect on future sales or may eliminate the possiblity of a future lawsuit. To say that the cost will passed on to the consumer is unproven speculation.

People of all experience levels can make mistakes....beginners and pros...

Lighten up.....Learn from his experience so the mistake is not repeated in your shop.