Yet An Other Saw question thread

[Erwin Graween]

Hi all.

I was considering buying panel saws.
I was interested in either the new Wenzloff line sold at Leevalley or the new LieNielsen ones.

As anyone, tried both or have opinions on either saws. As they're both priced the same.
They both have almost the same specs, except for fine crosscut, where Wenzloff provides 10 tpi where LieNielsen provides 12ppi.
The other difference, seems to be the height of the blade, which seems higher for the Wenzloff one (allowing more use, and maybe retoothing if badly cared or sharpened).

Any toughts?

Thank you.

[Robert Rozaieski]

You really can't go wrong either way. Probably 95% of how well a saw works is in the sharpening and tooth geometries. Both companies do a fine job of this so you're safe there. You just need to pick a tooth geometry based on what you plan to use the saw for most.

I don't know the full specs on each saw (rake, fleam, etc.), but for a panel saw for crosscutting boards or glued up panels to rough size (in the lumber species that I use most often), I like a saw with 10 points or less (currently using an 8 point). I think 12 points would be a little slow for the work a long saw like this is meant to do (it ain't a fine joinery saw), though it would leave a finer finish. However, when I'm using a panel saw like this, I'm not really concerned about the final finish because either the cut end is not going to show (i.e. burried inside joinery) or I'm going to cut it fat and clean up to a knife scribed baseline (ends of a table top, etc.). Very rarely is the surface left by a crosscut saw the final show surface, so I'd rather have a saw that cuts a little faster.

Of course if the LN saw is a 12 point saw but has a more aggressive rake than the 10 point Wenz, then the two could approach the same cut speed, but one might be easier to use in very hard wood and one might be better suited for softer wood. So it's important to know what you intend the saw to be used for most often and what types and thicknesses of lumber you hand saw the most.

[Mike Siemsen]

Ditto on what Rob said. When you buy a premium saw you are mostly buying the handle. The saw steels are probably the same and the variations in teeth other than pitch (# of points) can easily be changed when the saw is sharpened. I find saw comparisons interesting because you are really judging the sharpening job and as soon as it gets dull you will have to sharpen it and that will change. Get the saw that hangs the way you want it with the pitch you want and learn how to file it so it works like you want it to.
Mike

[Joe Close]

One other thought is whether the saw is brested or not. I don't know about LN. I do have a Wenzloff Kenyon CC, and it is breasted. I like the Wenzloff. However, I don't have another "quality" panel saw to compare it to, apples to apples.

I do have a number of other LN tools, just no panel saws from LN. I don't think you could go wrong with either brand.

[David Keller NC]

One other thought is that you might want to contact Mike Wenzloff directly. You could go two routes - get him to make a custom panel saw to your specifications (though you'll have to wait on it), or potentially buy a kit from him with the blade the length, tpi and geometry that you want, and finish carving/shaping the handle to suit your hand and preferences.

That's oen way to get precisely the tpi you want, and after talking to Mike, he will likely recommend a specific tooth geometry for the specific types of wood that you use most. A saw specifically designed for softwoods such as pine & poplar will have a very different optimum fleam/pitch/rake than one designed primarily to cut cherry & walnut.

[Jim Koepke]

At the Lie-Nielsen Tool Event in Portland, I tried two back saws. One was a variable pitch and one was a 15 ppi.

My intent was to see how the "good stuff" felt in the wood.

The handle and hang was superb. I did like the fit and finish. When the 15 ppi was used, it did start well, but it seemed quite a bit less aggressive than the saw used on most of my dovetails, a Bishop #10 that needed a lot of work when it was bought. The saw did make a narrower kerf than my saw. It has a thinner saw plate. It felt a little tight in the wood. It cut nice, but it was a bit slower than the saw to which I am accustomed.

The variable pitch saw seemed to start out well, but on a full stroke, it seemed to get a bit grabby at the end of the stroke and if it was not pushed deliberately, it would stall.

The saws were very good and I was not used to using them, but it has convinced me that the next "new saw" that comes to my shop is likely to be one that is also made in my shop.

jim

[Brian Kent]

Erwin, just to clarify, are you looking to have the right saws for cutting wood or are you specifically looking for new, premium saws (that of course will also be the right saws for cutting wood)? Are refurbished used saws a part of your equation?

Brian

[David Gendron]

Good point Brian.
To follow David K. option, there is other saw makers you could contact and maybe not wait as long as with Mike W. I'm thinking of Ed Paik at medallion tool work, he makes realy good saws with custom totes and all! In terms of refurbished saws, you can contact Mark Harrel at Bad Axe Tool Work, he always have some good saw kiking around, waiting to be restored for a customer!! And of cours, I could go on and on about different vintage saw resalers/restores guys.
Go on Mark's face book page:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/BadAxe...s/390516585103
And go to the discussion section, you will find a lot of info there!

[Graham Hughes (CA)]

I must duly note that while I have a pair of Paxes and yes the handles are not where they should be but the steel per se is fine, neither came properly sharpened, and if you know what you're doing enough to fix them you're probably buying saws off eBay.

[Erwin Graween]

Hi.

Sorry for the late answer but I was away and busy.
Thank you for the replies.
So:

Brian and David. I'm of course looking for a saw that is the right one to do the job. My problem is that I spent a lot of time to learn of to use, tune sharpen handplanes. I'm actually in the process for joinery saws (sharpening, in fact more screwing for the moment ...), but my situation evolved, and my leasure time is really reduced now. Plus I'm living in France. That means, I do not have time to refurbish myself correctly saws (I have an old spears& jackson that is waiting for that for almost a year now). It also means that getting fine saws over the Pond is expensive, which also implies that you don't want to get crappy thing, because you pay too much for them. Sometimes the difference between an average saw correctly retuned (ex by techno primivite or else) and a fine new premium saw) would not be that much (maybe about 100$). That makes you think twice.

But you're right pointing this option, as I did only think about the bay or new, refurbished saw can be part of the equation, as would be well balanced between a new premium and a crappy saw.
As is about a saw kit, I thought about Mike's kits, but the saws are not taper ground, does it really have an impact ?

Otherwise, I'm mostly using soft woods, and also oak, and sometimes ash, no really other types.

But all in all it's true that at one point the sharpening is the key, and that even when buying premium saws, or nicely refurbished, you'll end up having to sharpen yourself, modifying surely the saw, and it's way of working (surely for the bad ). But if you've seen it correctly done once, that would help.

Thank you.