Advice On Dust Collector - C

[Tom Rash]

Hello All,

This is my first post here. I have been lurking for a while and have read alot of good stuff.

I am in need of a dust collector and have read every thread, have been to Bill Pentz website, and many other forums on the web.

I currently have a 15 x 19 basement shop with a bandsaw, table saw, router table. I am going to buy a jointer and planer in the new few months. I am currently using a dust deputy with shop vac, but it still leaves alot of dust in the air.

I am mostly concerned with containing the dust so it does not contaminate the rest of the house and our health. I have been hemming and hawing here about getting a cyclone (oneida v series is what I was looking at) the other option I was looking at was buying the harbor freight 2hp with a wynn filter and thein separator and then possibly buying an air cleaner.

What do you guys think is the best option?

The questions I have is how good is the HF for the fine dust collection?

For those with a cyclone was the purchase worth it? How long should I expect the cyclone to last?

What brands of cyclone do you like? I have looked at oneida, pennstate, and grizzly.

Obviously money is an issue, but if the cyclone will last 15-20 years (sales reps telling me this) then the price might be worth it.

I was also told you can use the cyclone as an air cleaner. Do any of you do this? Does it work well or should I get a dedicated air cleaner?

Again my biggest concern is that the air is circulating to the rest of the house.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hello Tom welcome to the forum.

I have a basement shop also, and after wasting my money on poor quality, poor performance dust collectors, upgraded to an Oneida cyclone about 8 years ago.

That, plus proper duct design and machine collection cured the dust problem in my shop and house.

My brother also purchased an Oneida cyclone ( although a larger one) since his duct runs were much longer.

A cyclone should last you a lifetime, the filters last about 8 years before requiring replacement in a home shop environment. If I were you I would buy an Oneida for the engineering, performance and if you're American, it's a home grown product.

Table Saw, you definitely need over the blade dust collection, it's amazing how much extremely fine dust is ejected off the top of the blade. You'll need 400 to 500 CFM for the cabinet, 200 to 300 CFM for the overhead guard/dust hood.

Jointer and planer, depends upon the size of the machine, I have a Hammer A3-31 12" machine and it needs 500 CFM, and comes with a 120mm (5 inch) port.

Band saw, requires cabinet and under table collection so you're at 600 to 800CFM total.

I use mine as an air cleaner, since through good design it captures almost all the stuff at the source. If you don't do that, your lungs will be doing it.

There's no sense letting lots of fine dust into the air, and then trying to filter it out, you then have to wear a respirator, and it doesn't do a thing for your family, the fine dust settles out and gets tracked through the house.

You absolutely want to capture the dust at source, and then separate it out, and then filter the exhaust air. That's what a good cyclone such as the Oneida does.

The dust collector is the hardest working machine in your shop, it runs at full load all the time, and runs whenever one of your machines is running.

Spend the money once, spend a good amount of it, and receive good value for your money as well as good health protection.

Regards, Rod.

[Jeff Sudmeier]

I have a HF Dust collector hooked up to 4" pipe in my shop. My shop is in the garage and while the dust collector does a great job at collecting dust and chips so that I don't have to sweep so much (I hate sweeping), it doesn't do a great job of keeping dust out of the air.

I would suggest a more powerful system if you are trying to keep dust out of the house.

I would also suggest building an air cleaner. The air cleaners you build move a lot more are and they are really cheap to build. Mine cost me a case of beer for the furnace blower. (SHowed up to a HVAC company on Friday afternoon with a case of beer, left with a blower).

Don't forget that you will spend at least as much as you spent on the dust collector on piping the system.

Man does it add up in a hurry!!.

[David Hostetler]

Since you say you read Bill Pentz' web site, you know that for proper dust collection you need...

#1. Proper dust hoods.
#2. Sufficient airflow and static lift.
#3. Proper filtration.

The HF 2HP DC does a fairly decent job at pulling all the fines I can produce from my dust hoods that actually capture dust. Not all of my tools are set up well for dust collection though, and I am improving that as quickly as I can possibly manage... Shop Vac or Cyclone doesn't matter if your dust hoods don't work worth a hoot. Unless you are running a monster cyclone that sucks all the air out of a room in 5 seconds that is, then you have to worry about YOU getting sucked through an impeller...

The 2HP HF DC does provide, by MOST users experience, suffiicient airflow and static lift to do proper dust collection. Bill argues against this, however users with well set up systems and particle counters seem to provide data contrary to Bill's claims in this area. From what users are experiencing the HF DC CAN be made to support 6" duct main to 4" branches, in a small shop with short runs. It should go without saying that a 3 HP or better cyclone with a larger impeller will do better. Having said that, I do not know of anyone getting good results air flow wise with the OEM bag filters, but rather when retrofitted with a Wynn, or similar cartridge filter...

And as far as filtration is concerned, Yes the Wynn filters exceptionally well. I have the Spun Bond Poly, which has several disadvnatages, #1. Less SQ/FT pleats compared to the paper or Nano elements, #2. 1 micron filtration compared to the .5 micron of the paper or nano elements. The advantage for me, was that it released dust better than the others, AND it would tolerate moisture, or in my case, humidity. Being nealy on the water in the Gulf of Mexico, humidity is a HUGE problem for me...

If you are tight on budget the HF DC is acceptable, but not the best solution, the best solutions typically cost more... If you have the $$, I would go with a Clear Vue Cyclone, and get your duct work and dust hoods all figured out...

[Milind Patil]

Do not buy PennState. I have bad experience with them. Try Grizzly instead.

I just received PennState DC2000BCF (canister model). I have not yet finished assembly. Once I do, I will post its performance.

The packing was absolutely horrible. The box came broken (the metal rods were dumped loose inside which probably rattled and punctured the box). The inside styrofoam blocks were completely shattered so the rim got dented by banging on impeller. The design is also poor. There is no easy way to attach the canister, and it supported on vertical rods on only 3 points i.e. 12 o'clock, 3 o'clock and 6 o'clock. The 9 o'clock point is unsupported. The instruction manual is totally useless and you spend a lot of time figuring things out yourself (I have been assembling since yesterday and still not finished. Had to make two trips to local hardware so far to get addtional material for the assembly). Also PennState screwed me on Shipping. They charged $95 whereas Grizzly charges $74 for similar DC with same weight and size. Unlike Grizzly, PennState does not provide shipping charges at the time of check out, keeping their option open to screw you. Oh, and getting those people on phone is just hard as trying assemble the unit. I have been desparately trying to get them on phone since yesterday, and all I get is answering machine. This is my last purchase ever from those people.

I think I should have bought Grizzly. For the same price and same horsepower, their DC has 200CFM more than the PennState's model (1700CFM vs 1500CFM).

[Neil Davie]

I have had excellent results with the Grizzly 2 hp dust collector. The first one I had, I built a home brew cyclone that worked terrific. The removal of some of the bends and restrictions actually increased the flow. Two houses later, I just bought another one, installed in the atic above the garage shop. A simple plastic "room" encloses the dc with a return vent with filter leading back to the shop ceiling. With 6" piping, all works great. I have a garbage can with cyclone top (comes with the dc) for really large quanity jobs like planing rough lumber.

[Tom Rash]

I just wanted to thank everyone for the suggestions. I went with the Oneida V3000 with the Hepa Filter. They had a deal on shipping so it only cost me $50 more than the 2000. In the end I figured I wanted to buy the one that would last me the longest and give me the best dust collection. I was most concerned with dust migrating to other places in the house. Currently I am just using flex hose to go from machine to machine, but I will get the duct work in this summer. Oneida will design the duct work for free.

Thanks again for everyone's suggestions.

[Mike Archambeau]

I just wanted to thank everyone for the suggestions. I went with the Oneida V3000 with the Hepa Filter. They had a deal on shipping so it only cost me $50 more than the 2000. In the end I figured I wanted to buy the one that would last me the longest and give me the best dust collection. I was most concerned with dust migrating to other places in the house. Currently I am just using flex hose to go from machine to machine, but I will get the duct work in this summer. Oneida will design the duct work for free.

Thanks again for everyone's suggestions.

Congrats on the new DC. Can you share what you paid? I have been considering a similar purchase.

[Tom Rash]

1195 for the system Plus 85 for shipping it is normally 135. I also got them to give me a remote for free. They normally charge 80 for the remote.

[Philip Rodriquez]

I've had an Oneida V-3000 for about 6 months. As a 3 HP machine, it came with free duct design, a hepa, and 2 remotes. I have 5 drops with short runs (under 15 feet each). In all, I paid around $2,200.00.

There is no shortage of CFM and it easily keeps up with a 15" planer, 10" jointer, and I have no problems running my TS and Overarm BG.

Call Oneida. They will size a machine for your shop. I was ready to spend 4,000 and I was shocked when they recommended the V-3000. The keys were:
1 man shop = 1 tool at a time
Short runs

Lastly, the machine is only a little louder than my old Jet 1100-cannister unit.

[Bill Blackburn]

Do not buy PennState. I have bad experience with them. Try Grizzly instead.

I just received PennState DC2000BCF (canister model). I have not yet finished assembly. Once I do, I will post its performance.

The packing was absolutely horrible. The box came broken (the metal rods were dumped loose inside which probably rattled and punctured the box). The inside styrofoam blocks were completely shattered so the rim got dented by banging on impeller. The design is also poor. There is no easy way to attach the canister, and it supported on vertical rods on only 3 points i.e. 12 o'clock, 3 o'clock and 6 o'clock. The 9 o'clock point is unsupported. The instruction manual is totally useless and you spend a lot of time figuring things out yourself (I have been assembling since yesterday and still not finished. Had to make two trips to local hardware so far to get addtional material for the assembly). Also PennState screwed me on Shipping. They charged $95 whereas Grizzly charges $74 for similar DC with same weight and size. Unlike Grizzly, PennState does not provide shipping charges at the time of check out, keeping their option open to screw you. Oh, and getting those people on phone is just hard as trying assemble the unit. I have been desparately trying to get them on phone since yesterday, and all I get is answering machine. This is my last purchase ever from those people.

I think I should have bought Grizzly. For the same price and same horsepower, their DC has 200CFM more than the PennState's model (1700CFM vs 1500CFM).

That PSI DC2000 is the DC I have and kept over many other models that have infiltrated my shop.
It is IMHO the best DC I've had. By a sizeable margin too over most. That 220v can be an issue for some folks.
It sucks like crazy, solid motor and as quiet as a DC can get. Think Wood and others have always stated this too.
Disclaimer - I have not had a cyclone. No need for my operation is reason.

Sounds to me like the issue is with the shipper. Call PSI again and leave a message you want an RMA, and send it back if need be. I've got a friend in the TC's that had one trashed out by shipper. They sent him out one and it arrived even before he got the old one sent back. They been pretty solid in CS I been told. I called them once on a damaged fitting for the ducting. Called me back within an hour. Something seems wrong here.
Another thought - They didn't advise you of the shipping cost in advance? They had the costs posted when I was in market and always advised totals on my phone orders too. Hard to say they "screwed you" when you had the info in advance. And if you didn't .... wow. You shouldn't have ordered!!

Guess I'm indeed defending them at that. Where they might have done wrong is on the not returning a call. Did you call only the once? Try again in case someone transposed a number or screwed up. They shouldn't but things happen....
I just looked at my PSI instructions. And my old Grizz 1029, HF and Jet's. They all leave a lot to be desired. All workable but all crappy.

Honestly - I'm thinking you might never be happy now with that unit so I say return it and be done. Bitch enough and they'll likely refund shipping costs too - or get them back from whomever the shipper was. This has become a no win for them or you.

To bad - like I said it is my all time fav DC. Others who actually own one will say the same thing here, and o'er on the Woodnet forum. If the thing wasn't beat up in shipping I'm sure you would overlook the stinken howdy-doodys and likely feel the same. Never happen now

BTW - based on my actual experience vs some scientific testing I don't think the Grizz , the 1029z at least, had any more cfm. The same maybe but to my farthest machine no more. The PSI seems to grab a wee bit more actually I'd wager. Mighty close regardless.
The biggest thing was the noise factor ... the PSI wins easily that war. So even if the suck is on par - I vote for less noise in the end. Both are very good machines at that.
Sorry to hear of your issues.

edited - The web site has the shipping charges listed for most and stated if it is a "custom shipping charge" they will contact you on same. Easy thing to dispute if they did not with the CC. Should be simple enough to deal with if need be.

[glenn bradley]

To modify an old famous quote "No one ever got fired for buying Oneida". They make some great stuff. No one ever got fired for saving money either; I bought a Grizzly G0440 about a year and a half ago and it has been wonderful.