Flattening Shapton Stones

[David Weaver]

Craigslist for the old sandstones. they show up here all the time, but they do take up some real estate in your shop, and sometimes people are pretty proud of them when they think of a price.

If and when you order the atoma, spend the extra couple of bucks and get the rubber base. it's nice to have (it's very good quality), and it makes it easier to use the thing as a stone if you choose to do that some, too.

[george wilson]

I got several off of a local "Trading Post" newspaper years ago. People were buying them to bury in the ends of their driveways!! An old warehouse in Norfolk,Va. dating from the civil war had been burned down. The basement was full of real old hardware from that period. Hand forges nuts and bolts,etc.. Dozens of those wheels.

You will see old farm type grinding wheels sitting usually outside of antique shops.

Here's an idea: Look up stone cutting places in your area. You can probably get an imperfect stone free. Monument makers,architectural stone suppliers. Places like that.

[David Weaver]

People use them for decoration around here. I think they probably pay more for them as decoration than we'd pay for use, and in the case that they find them and use them for decoration, they have no interest in selling them via saying they'd sell one to you for several hundred dollars.

There's a small house in Harmony, PA that's got a bunch of them sitting around it outside, front and back. I guess they like them for decoration.

If I had room, I'd ask them if they wanted to sell any of them, but it never looks like anyone is around there, anyway, and I see them from time to time here on CL, often being sold as lawn ornaments.

George - I've seen a couple in antique shops, including one with a treadle, but they are way out of round usually - way way out. Does that make any difference in use given that they're so big around and being used freehand, anyway?

[Neil Zenuk]

I haven't read about anyone using glass covered with plastic laminate and lapping grit yet. The glass is perfectly flat, and the plastic is soft so the grit embeds into it as you move the stone around. I use 180x grit as is breaks down into a smaller size as you use it. A 2oz container which has lasts a very long time is $4.80, laminate $14.50 for 4 (8 1/2" x 14") http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...17&cat=1,43072, and most of us have a spare piece of glass (if not, also cheap). That's my cheap but highly effective $0.02.

[george wilson]

To flatten your stones,it doesn't matter even if the sandstone is square.You lay the stone on its side,and lap your stone on the side of the sandstone with water. You might could find a block of sandstone at a stone supplier,as I mentioned.

[Ross Canant]

Lots of things will flatten Shaptons or other water stones. I picked up a big old metal lathe faceplate at an auction for $5. It's dead flat of course. Sprinkle on the lapping powder and it works great. It's heavy enough that it doesn't move, and it's about 15" across, so lots of room.

[Rick Markham]

Good to know, thanks Y'all I will let ya know what I end up deciding, it's been a busy weekend

[Dave Beauchesne]

For what its worth, I have the Shapton plate and absolutely love the thing.

I don't have experience with the other brands; I have been burned before by spending $$ on something, being disappointed, and ended up spending $$$$ later.

BTW, the $300 + flattener is not the only one they make - at the local woodworking school one of the Japanese resident instructors brought back ( from Japan his last trip ) two Shapton flattening plates that are two sided - the base material looks like an Aluminum Bronze, with a completely different waffle pattern on either side ( from the plate I have ) - @, get this, nearly double the dollars.

JMHO

Dave Beauchesne

[Stuart Tierney]

Hi Dave,

That very expensive Shapton diamond plate was designed for the Professional stones as well as some of the Pro stone predecessors, if I have it right. My timing might be off, I am not 100% sure. Maybe it was about the time of the Hippo stones.

You are right, it is bronze based and is flat. Not 'quite flat', not 'within xyz flat', it is flat.

While it is expensive, at that time it had one solid redeeming feature, that the diamond surface could be replaced on the plate (for the princely sum of about $100) thereby extending the life of the plate. I don't know if the fee was for one or both sides. I do believe that one side was for stones, the other for blades. IIRC, the really open side is the stone side, the hounds-tooth side for blades.

A truly excellent plate, regrettably it was also fully twice the price of anything else out there, and definitely not twice as good as the highest priced competitor, if only because that competitors were also 'flat' and the diamonds were either sintered into the surface or electroplated the same as the Shapton plate. Sintering extends the life of the plate by a goodly amount and reducing that pesky problem of diamond plates losing their diamonds by a heap too. It's only suitable for really fine grit diamonds though, since the rocks are pressed into the plate itself, not just stuck to it.

For what it's worth, the 'competitor' was the Atoma, and the plates you guys are talking about here are the 'Atoma Economy' which were basically an answer to every argument Shapton had. Non ferrous base, very flat, replaceable surface.

And less than 1/4 the price too.

Shapton also has a cast (malleable?) iron lapping plate used with loose grit. Also very well made, yet still quite expensive. The current version is a little larger than the previous 'lapping plate' which was labelled as 'compact' and might still be available in some places carrying old stock. Only suitable for actual waterstones, not the Shapton Glass Stones.

I don't use an Atoma plate though, I use a different plate that is quite flat enough, was designed for flattening stones on one side, shaping blades on the other and is even less expensive than the Atoma Economy plate.

(I do have a replacement #600 grit Atoma sheet sitting on my shelf though that might get called into service at some point. Never mind that 'shelf' is also sagging under the weight of a dozen different #1000 grit waterstones. At least I think it's a dozen, I have not counted recently... )

I hope that helps, and if someone had two of those plates, I hope one was for someone else because as far as I know, Shapton will still refresh the surface on those plates. Coughing up that kind change, it's worth taking up any slim possibility of making them 'economical'.

[jerry nazard]

Was that a Schtoo....?

[David Weaver]

Is a "schtoo" a noun, but not a proper noun?

Schtoo's getting things named after him! proper use would be:

"I just schtooed"

"I haven't let out a good schtoo in a while, see you in ten minutes"

That is definitely the same schtoo i've sent some coin to.

[jerry nazard]

Hi David!

What... did I forget to say Gesundheit?

-Jerry

[Tom Henderson2]

Was that a Schtoo....?

Schtoo's name is Stu. He lives in Japan....

[Stuart Tierney]

It's bad when your chosen moniker is better known than your real name...

I got 'Schtoo' about 20 years ago, when I was racing RC cars and did quite well with one made by a company called 'Schumacher', hence the spelling.

Used it as a screen name for over 15 years now, but someone stole the name and used it for themselves. They seem to be doing well with it, and they are actually a Stu so good luck to them.


And yep, last time I checked I was in Japan.

(I hope that using my name as a noun has only positive connotations. Well, positive enough that I find them acceptable will do, please. )

[Wilbur Pan]

There are many ways of flattening a Shapton or any other waterstone. I think that the key to a flattening method is really how convenient it is to use. Diamond plates are the most convenient method that I've found. I made a video to show how easy it is to use a diamond plate to flatten a waterstone. It takes 30 seconds, and you don't even have to move the waterstone from where you're using it. You can see the video here.

I've tried both the DMT and the Atoma, and the Atoma is a lot nicer to use. The DMT seems to get clogged up with the waterstone swarf and there's a lot of resistance due to surface tension. The Atoma has small channels in the surface that prevent this from happening.