There's more than weeds growing in the lawn

[Joe Leigh]

Trying to distract the argument by the merits and needs of hunting or fishing, the merits of catch and release, or the conditions of animal raising and slaughter for food have no bearing on this situation. None of them apply. The cat was not killed for any of those purposes, and the motive behind the killing is not related to those issues.
Chris

This sums it all up.

[Dan Hintz]

Chris,

I feel my "lol" was quoted out of context in your post.

The cat that i shot was given respect, no i did not eat it but it grew some great tomatoes.

My amusement was about Heather's cute twist of words about not eating what she shot, but that it still served a purpose (fertilizer for tomatoes) and did not go to waste. I was not laughing at the fact that she actually shot the cat.

That said, I may have wasted the furry little bugger, too. Maybe not for killing rabbits, but there are usually plenty of other viable reasons, and I'm not about to fault Heather for choosing to protect the local woodland creatures over someone's unkempt pet. What if the bunnies were Heather's pets... would you have chided her for killing a neighbor's pet for killing her own? Tough to be sanctimonious when a small change in the situation gives it a whole new light.

I'm tired of people allowing their animals to roam freely because it's too much trouble to keep them indoors or take responsibility for their actions. If you want a pet, then treat it like one and take care of it. When you purposefully let it out and leave a dump in my yard larger than my head, like the horse-sized dog two doors down from us, come clean it up. When it uses my $50k car's hood for a space heater and thanks me by leaving claw marks down the hood as two cats fight for the right to stay warm, you had best be willing to pay for the damages and compensate me for the trouble. Failing that, I'm going to take steps to prevent it from happening myself.

[Scott Shepherd]

I had a neighbors cat that tore my car finish to pieces. Every night it would find my car and jump on it, it would jump and miss, it would slide down the hood, fenders and everywhere else. It literally ruined the paint on my car. I talked to the neighbor about it, they didn't seem to care, I called animal control, they told me that cats are not considered pets in our county, as they are capable of taking care of themselves, so there was nothing they could do.

So I couldn't sue the owners, and animal control told me there is nothing they can do, and nothing I could do. So I just ended up letting my paint get ruined by the cat.

I sprayed it with water (which the animal control person told me to do), and it made no difference, it would just come later in the evening when I wasn't watching for it.

Not sure how that's fair to me, but that's how it played out. They finally moved out, and of course, left the cat. I think over time, it decided there was better food somewhere else, since it's owners weren't there to put food out any longer.

[John Coloccia]

It occurs to me that there are a lot of people out there that have a very adversarial relationship with nature.

[Chris Kennedy]

When I made my post, it was not actually to be argumentative. I don't think that I am going to convince people to think other than the way they do. I posted what I did because I had read the thread, and I had to say _something_. We all have those issues that require us to speak up, and this was one in my case.

I has been suggested that I am being sanctimonious. To be sanctimonious requires being hypocritical -- sanctimony is a contradictory show of devotion, and I don't think I have said anything contradictory or hypocritical. But, to be on the safe side, I will let people know where I come from, and I will let everyone judge my hypocrisy.

When I was a toddler, riding my tricycle around the driveway, the German shepherd from two doors up got out of its yard, came running down the street and attacked me. Luckily for me, it was a cold day, and I was wearing a thick jacket/parka. The dog got the collar of my jacket and tore the back completely off. Had it not been for the thick collar, it would have had my neck. Thea took a second attempt at my neck, by which time my dad had come running and got the beast off of me. What exactly he did, I don't remember. Most of it was a blur. Dad was preparing one of the front flower beds, working it over with a pickaxe in preparation of going over with the rototiller. I don't remember if he hit Thea with the pickaxe, kicked the damn dog with his work boots, or whatever. All I remember was being curled up on the driveway trying to protect myself and screaming. Thea went scarpering back to her yard.

My dad went tearing up to the owner's house. They were two doors up from us, and the intermediary neighbor went with him. He had seen the attack, but he wanted to make certain that my dad didn't tear the owner limb from limb.

My dad told them if the dog went anywhere near any of his kids, he would have it destroyed (note: he would have it destroyed, not kill it a month later).

Thea's attack has left a permanent mark on me. I have small scars on the back of my neck from her second attempt, and to this day, I have a fear of dogs. From being a toddler to going away from college, that damn dog lived two houses away from me. I can remember the Newton's walking that dog on a leash, and as a kid, I would still run behind the fence and shut the gate despite Thea being leashed.

If anybody has a right to put a bullet into that dog, first in line is me, and second is my dad (and more practically the other way around since my dad is more accomplished with a rifle from his military days).

So, I have literally been in the same position as the baby bunnies in Ms. Thompson's post. To this day, I can remember Thea's teeth on my neck, and trust me, that isn't something you want to feel.

And for the record, my issue is that the cat was killed a month later in a premeditated fashion, not in the immediate defense of the baby rabbits. Maybe I didn't convey that very well.

I have never killed Thea. My dad never did. We never enticed it in and put a projectile into her a week later, or a month later, or six months later, or years later. That damn dog died of old age or some old age ailment.

I very well may be sanctimonious and hypocritical. I'll take that hit. After all, I've been attacked by a German shepherd that literally left me crying in a ball trying to protect myself and to this day, the sight of most dogs causes adrenaline surges, and despite that fact, I always put myself between the dog and my toddler to protect him -- just in case -- after what I went through. I think I know what it means to live with an animal that has attacked me and in the cold light of day, I still don't think it is right to put a projectile into it a month later. It would no longer be defense, it would be vengeance. And yes, I think vengeance is _not_ a good side of us as human beings.

So, if I am a sanctimonious hypocrite, so be it.

And to be perfectly honest, I don't like cats.

Chris

[Bill Cunningham]

I would have shot the dog in a heartbeat and called the neighbor to come down and scrape it off my driveway with a shovel if need be.. But, that's just my nature I guess!

[Chris Kennedy]

I would have shot the dog in a heartbeat and called the neighbor to come down and scrape it off my driveway with a shovel if need be.. But, that's just my nature I guess!

My dad was digging up one of the garden beds in the front yard when it happened. In the heat of the moment, if my dad had a rifle in reach, he may very well have done that, except possibly that I was in the middle of the attack.

My dad literally went after the dog by himself. I was too young to remember exact details, but I remember my dad yelling and running over. I remember seeing a blur over my shoulder as Thea came in for the attack, and the back being ripped off my parka. I also remember coming off my trike as she hit again.

My dad came running. I think he kicked the dog or he may have hit it with the pickaxe he was using to dig up the garden bed. I'm not certain. The dog ran away. I remember that. I have been told that he had the pickaxe in hand when he confronted the neighbor, which is part of why the intermediary neighbor followed him to make certain my dad didn't do something irreversible.

I honestly think my dad would have been justified in killing Thea at the time, and he would have done it or have been mauled in the attempt if that damn dog hadn't run away.

Cheers,

Chris

[Phil Thien]

What I have now seen is truly appalling.

...

A cat was killing baby bunnies. Yes, it is sad, and probably somewhat horrific to watch. But the cat is an animal, that while domesticated, still has hunting instincts. Plenty of house cats will "play" with rodents and are taught by their mothers to do so. Cats are not vegetarians -- I don't think they are even omnivores. Cats will turn feral and hunt. This cat was doing what cats do.

I can understand being appalled by what it was doing, and possibly being angry enough to chase after it with a 2 by 4 with nails in the heat of the moment. Killing it a month later is not in the heat of the moment.

Planning to kill it, announcing the intention to do so, and doing so is a clear sign of premeditation. Furthermore, there is a clear indication of taking pride in the kill, and humor that the corpse went into growing tomatoes. If killing something is a matter of pride, this isn't a matter of respect. This wasn't a hunt -- this was murder for one of pleasure, satisfaction, or revenge (I'm not certain which). An animal was killed for following its instincts.

So how do you feel about ranchers shooting wolves or coyotes?

[Harold Burrell]

So how do you feel about ranchers shooting wolves or coyotes?

Or hunting down a mountain lion after it attacked your child?

[Phil Thien]

Or hunting down a mountain lion after it attacked your child?

When using the Socratic method, it is important not to jump ahead like that.

[Harold Burrell]

When using the Socratic method, it is important not to jump ahead like that.

Socrates would have shot the cat.

[Phil Thien]

Socrates would have shot the cat.

I was thinking more along the lines of a nice bowl of milk laced with hemlock.

[Harold Burrell]

I was thinking more along the lines of a nice bowl of milk laced with hemlock.

...or flintlock.

[Brian Ashton]

So how do you feel about ranchers shooting wolves or coyotes?

The last time they let the ranchers loose they completely wiped out many of the top predators from a great deal of America. Is that the answer you would like to see again but maybe this time wiped out completely - many ranchers think that wouldn't be such a bad thing...

Ranchers are often unwilling to realise that they moved into the wolves and other carnivores territory - not the other way round. And are even less able to understand that the carnivores are doing what comes naturally - trying to survive!

And if that weren't enough look what's happening in Yellowstone now! Since the reintroduction of the wolf riparian zones are transforming and being restored before "our" eyes. Why because on one simple thing, they brought back one of the apex predators. The beneficial spill on effect will be something to study for generations. Probably the best example of how bad a decision it was to simply get out the gun and try to wipe out predators...

We, as supposedly the more advanced animal, have an obligation to be smarter and work with the environment instead of simply grabbing the gun and or poison and wiping it out because it doesn't fit into our narrow minded perception(s) of how things should be. It is such a basic concept and blows me away on how hard it is for people to grasp it.

[Brian Ashton]

Or hunting down a mountain lion after it attacked your child?

Honest question: are you being a troll or asking a legitimate question?

I could ask others the same question in this thread but they're obviously playing the troll.