Monday Morning Blues

[Rodne Gold]

Im really annoyed with the drop in so called USA made quality in the car part business - I import and use a ton of V8 parts , both personally and in my pimp your ride business , not only that , we share premises with one of the biggest muscle car parts importers.
I paid a WHACK for real AC Delco relays for my vette - close to $90 for 2 - open the box and they are cheap generic labeled made in china junk - I didnt have to wait 2 weeks to get that...
Boxed parts from Comp Cams , Milodon , MSD, Rchmond gear, Holley etc are all coming with bits missing , wrong parts included , incomplete installation kits and so forth - it's becoming a nightmare as cars are standing for weeks on end cos of bad parts...
We have spoken to a few mnfgrs about this , ALL of the co's that have these issues have their goods packed or made offshore...
Made in the USA might be on the box , but its not inside and it's no longer a guarantee of quality in this market segment.

[Andrea Weissenseel]

In times like these most people simply cannot afford being choosy, and it's like this not only in the US over here in Europe it's the same story (at least in Germany) so they only choose the cheapest "quality". Like others already said, Lasers are getting more affordable and some people rather charge a little rather than the machine standing still - especially if they don't have to make their living off the income with the machine. You just can't make your price, that you have to charge, plausible to customers, when you are in competition to an retiree firing a china cracker for $4-$5k

Mike wrote, that a lot of people simply don't know how to calculate their jobs correctly, I think that's a good point too. Naturally if you don't have to pay a lease for your machinery you don't have to charge that share to pay the lease - that's what they probably think. I faced competing offers calling up prices, that I couldn't even get the material for.

But if you stick to your own choosen standards, I think you'll convince most customer in the long run, that you are the best choice for them. Self-Marketing is the key to it all

I have found that customers are far less discriminating than I am of my own work. Sometimes I'm not given much to work with & the final results are marginal - to me. However the customers where bowled over and very happy with the results. I've not had 1 customer that wasn't thrilled with the final product.

I agree fully with that - but I think everybody is experiencing this

just my 2c

Andrea

[Scott Shepherd]

One job doesn't make a trend. Mistakes happen, people misquote, people work for cheap. Nothing new here. It's been happening for 100 years or more in manufacturing. Let's face it, that's the business we are in, manufacturing. We're not in the "engraving" business, we're in manufacturing. In my time in machinery manufacturing, I've gone up against all of this before. I've seen people quote jobs for less than the material cost and I've seen us misquote jobs as well. It's part of the beast. You can't quote 1000's and 1000's of jobs and not make a mistake here and there. Also, you can't compete against people that are willing to work for $6 per hour out of their home.

In all my years in manufacturing, I've not seen this type of thing ever be a threat. It all works itself out. If it's a misquote, the people that quoted it will quickly figure it out and make that call back to the supplier, at which point, you'll look like the quality supplier, and next time they will call you instead of someone that they can't trust the quote, and if it's someone working for $6 per hour out of their home, they'll either get flooded with so much work they can't keep up, and then their delivery will fall to pieces, or they will get tired of working 18 hour days for $6 per hour and not being able to cover expenses like new tubes for their laser.

It's nothing to worry about, it's nothing new, it's not the end of the world, it's just a purchasing agent that doesn't have a clue and they think they are doing the right thing. They will learn.

Don't sweat it.

[Martin Boekers]

Im really annoyed with the drop in so called USA made quality in the car part business Made in the USA might be on the box , but its not inside and it's no longer a guarantee of quality in this market segment.

Rodne,

I know what you mean, it is hard to distinguise just what made in USA means. Maybe different levels;

100% made in USA
Assembled in USA
Materials made in USA


each has a different conotation.

As you said The quality level has change world wide.
As many toys that come from China that reach our shores
you think that by now there would be an understanding
that lead paint and "swallowable" small parts are a no-no.
Yet they still come here and get recalled. I didn't mean
just to single out China, but it does happen.

The problem lies when the manufacturer decieves us by
not giving the total picture ethically, yes maybe ok
legally but not ethically.

It is explained away by saying it was made in USA when actually
assembled from castings made from other origins.

I actually have a wood frame that says Hand made in Thailand
from American Alder Wood. It's amazing it's cheaper to process
the wood states side, ship it overseas and back, than it is to
produce it here.

I'm competative with local shops as far as pricing goes,
where I shine is the service end. I give them more than they
expect so that makes the difference here.

I do get a few that leave for pricing (I think we all do at sometime)
None of us will get 100% of the work so yes, some test waters elsewhere.

I do have a few clients come in and question pricing, I usually have
alternative selections for them. Maybe a scrape booking shop that sells
nice metallic card stock that can be laser printed, if they have wood
making talents, we do have a fully appointed wood shop and frame
shop that they can rent for just a couple $$ an hour. Then I do
recommend another local shop to check out.

More often than not the don't want to do the card route, they don't have time
to fabricate a piece and after they check out the local shops they find
out we were cheaper, faster and closer! Then they come back.
It amazes me that some will drive an hour or more to save $2.

Give them the best you can produce!
Don't cut quality for low end pricing, unless that's what you want
to be noted for.


Marty

[Mike Lassiter]

One think I would like to say here is that if you don't think you are worth but so much that is very likely all you will get. I don't recall every getting more than we ask for anything we've done. I place a high value on quality. It is what I want people to remember about us. We have people come back after several years even though we know there are others selling cheaper than us. I have heard it said before "they know what their stuff is worth."

Embroidery is one area that people go into Wal Mart and see a shirt embroidered all the way around for $20 or you can buy the same shirt without embroidery for $15. Look in the tags and see where these items come from. There was a show I watched on TV (can't recall the name now) that had some young people go to other countries and actually work in some of the places that garments are made and sent to the USA. It was so sad. I think in one show the people had to make quota, and some even slept on the floor at the factory for $2.40 a week in pay.

There simply is no way for us to compete with that. I bought material made in a factory in Wisconsin, and embroider it with a machine made in Denver Co, and cut it out with a Universal Laser that we ordered and had to wait for it to be made in Scottsdale AZ. I wanted to try to keep my money as a consumer keeping my fellow countrymen and woman working.

I hate that so much is imported back to our country for us to buy it, and to think the people that are making most of it could never afford to buy what they make for a living in the under developed countries it comes here from. Of course I guess we can say that about some things that are made in this country as well; depending on where you live.

[David Fairfield]

Interesting post. The more you think about it, the more complex the problem becomes. So I try to focus on the domestic issues. I buy American when I can, but damn its tough and like Rodne said, sometimes there's just no point.

Fair competition is a great thing, its part of the evolutionary process of Capitalism. Keeps us all thinking up new and better stuff and methods.
But something needs fixing, when good jobs that keep people employed and productive are threatened and extinguished by competition with sweatshop, slave and child labor. People need jobs, not hand outs.

Dave

One think I would like to say here is that if you don't think you are worth but so much that is very likely all you will get. I don't recall every getting more than we ask for anything we've done. I place a high value on quality. It is what I want people to remember about us. We have people come back after several years even though we know there are others selling cheaper than us. I have heard it said before "they know what their stuff is worth."

Embroidery is one area that people go into Wal Mart and see a shirt embroidered all the way around for $20 or you can buy the same shirt without embroidery for $15. Look in the tags and see where these items come from. There was a show I watched on TV (can't recall the name now) that had some young people go to other countries and actually work in some of the places that garments are made and sent to the USA. It was so sad. I think in one show the people had to make quota, and some even slept on the floor at the factory for $2.40 a week in pay.

There simply is no way for us to compete with that. I bought material made in a factory in Wisconsin, and embroider it with a machine made in Denver Co, and cut it out with a Universal Laser that we ordered and had to wait for it to be made in Scottsdale AZ. I wanted to try to keep my money as a consumer keeping my fellow countrymen and woman working.

I hate that so much is imported back to our country for us to buy it, and to think the people that are making most of it could never afford to buy what they make for a living in the under developed countries it comes here from. Of course I guess we can say that about some things that are made in this country as well; depending on where you live.

[Michael Hunter]

Worse than the competition from peanuts labour is that the Chinese are controlling a big proportion of the supply of raw materials - so much so that western countries may soon be unable to make things even if they wanted to.

Examples -

Now that the mine in California has closed, the Chinese have the only supply of the stuff needed to make rare-earth magnets - and they have stopped exporting it, saying that it is needed for their home market.

They have bought up forests and wood stocks around the world (e.g. all the greenheart and exotic hardwood from the Caribean). Even the price of softwood fence posts in the UK has gone up because of this.

The Chinese have influence or ownership over a large percentage of the mining and mineral operations in Africa. Copper ore, you name it!


It is history repeating itself - the British and other Europeans did similar things in the 18th and 19th centuries. That does not alter the fact that the scale of the Chinese operation now is truly worrying.

[David Fairfield]

Just some food for thought here, regarding skilled labor jobs. Some people are just mentally wired for manual or creative work, and they just rot away in a white collar job, like I did!

http://www.aolnews.com/opinion/article/opinion-we-need-more-skilled-workers/19618719

http://www.matthewbcrawford.com/

Dave

[Andy Joe]

could it be that the person that can do it for 4.00$ a peice be able to run faster, or more at once? They wouldnt be doing project for a loss then. I charge a dollar an hour. ussually with a min. But a 3x3 would take me less then 3 min on a surface engraving. How deep you going?

[Martin Boekers]

I believe Mike was doing 3 sides so that would be about 9 min
roughly, so I think that's the same territory you are in at 3min a side

Mike I think runs a Trotec Speedy one of the faster machines on the
market.


Marty

[Niklas Bjornestal]

I charge a dollar an hour.

You should get alot of work for that price

[Viktor Voroncov]

Andy, is it joke?? I have customer in Pakistan, even he charge $20 per hour

[Mark Winlund]

Andy, is it joke?? I have customer in Pakistan, even he charge $20 per hour

Maybe he means he makes a dollar an hour. Thats about what I make on a good day......

Mark