Sliding TS - panel saw advice needed

[Jeff Monson]

Let me give another example. If I have a full 4' x 8' sheet on the sliding table, with the 4' edge against the cross-cut fence (as though I'm doing the 5-cut test), and I'm dust-cutting the 8' edge, I can move that sheet 1/8" and still have the sheet look and feel as though it is tight against the fence. You can't tell which position is the perfect and accurate position, this one, or 1/8" over.

This would just about have to indicate there is some side to side play in the slider table wouldnt it? Or in the crosscut fence?

[Jay Brewer]

Hi Greg, I have been using the same saw you have ( with a 10.5' slider ) for the last 5 years. IMO, you are over complicating this, USE THE RIP FENCE. I still don't understand why people want to rip on the slider. Use the slider to straight line the piece then go to the rip fence to get your parallel cuts, its that simple. No worrying about if the board is precisely against the crosscut fence and no setting up two stops ( if you are using the parallel ripping device ). I have ripped thousands of board feet of hardwoods and hundreds of sheets of plywood using this technique.

It is a little awkward using the rip fence. It took me about a week to get used to leaning over the sliding table, after that, it seems natural to me, and I would never go back to a cabinet saw.

I think if you give it some more time, you will be very happy with what that saw can do.

just my opinion.

[Rod Sheridan]

This would just about have to indicate there is some side to side play in the slider table wouldnt it? Or in the crosscut fence?

Or the crosscut fence or sheet isn't perfectly straight.........Rod.

[John Harden]

OP, you state that you spent considerable time setting your saw up accurately, but you also mention the 5 cut process.

You do know that this is useful for setting up a cross cut fence, but not a reliable method to align your slider, correct?

To align the slider you need to follow the steps in David Best's survival guide. Dial and test indicators work best for this.

Not very difficult and the folks over at FOG are a big help if you have any questions.

My apologies if you've already performed these steps.

Regards,

John

[John Harden]

Let me give another example. If I have a full 4' x 8' sheet on the sliding table, with the 4' edge against the cross-cut fence (as though I'm doing the 5-cut test), and I'm dust-cutting the 8' edge, I can move that sheet 1/8" and still have the sheet look and feel as though it is tight against the fence. You can't tell which position is the perfect and accurate position, this one, or 1/8" over.

Understand, we are not talking about fence deflection here, and we're not talking about the accuracy of the fence setup. I'm talking specifically about not being able to know for sure that the piece of wood is sitting perfectly square to the fence or parallel to the blade. From what I can see, the only way to be sure is to use the parallel jig table, and frankly, that's just too much of a PIA to set up all the time for each rip cut.

Greg,

I can see this happening. If your goal is to straight line rip one long side of an 8' long plywood sheet, you should be using the ripping shoe to hold the panel, not the crosscut fence.

Concerned about stock movement with long panels or boards? That's why they provide a clamp. I use a second one on the other end when dealing with long stock.

Personally, I rarely use sheet stock, only solid wood. Some of the 8/4 timbers are incredibly heavy, so when ripping them on the slider, I nearly always clamp them.

Not sure if I've been any help to you here.

Regards,

John

[johnny means]

I can move that sheet 1/8" and still have the sheet look and feel as though it is tight against the fence. You can't tell which position is the perfect and accurate position, this one, or 1/8" over.




Greg

If this is the case there is definitely a problem with your equipment, either in set-up or condition. You have slop somewhere. In my experience with Felder's X-roll table and outrigger, I had a lot of problems with the two set screws that adjusted the squareness of the crosscut fence. They were too small in IMO and didn't seem to do a great job of holding a setting. I also don't see the knob that clamps the outboard end of your fence down. It could be my view, but I would check that too.

[Greg Roberts]

OP, you state that you spent considerable time setting your saw up accurately, but you also mention the 5 cut process.

You do know that this is useful for setting up a cross cut fence, but not a reliable method to align your slider, correct?

To align the slider you need to follow the steps in David Best's survival guide. Dial and test indicators work best for this.

Not very difficult and the folks over at FOG are a big help if you have any questions.

My apologies if you've already performed these steps.

Regards,

John

Sorry I didn't mention that, but yes, I did align the slider using a dial indicator and I set it up for the proper runout on the blade.

Greg

[Greg Roberts]

Either I'm not communicating properly, or some people here are just not understanding me.

There is nothing wrong with the equipment. It's very simple, it IS possible with a 4' x 8' sheet of plywood, with the 4' end up against the cross-cut fence, to move it ever so slightly and not know whether it is perfectly aligned against that fence or not.

I agree that moving the piece 1/4" you would know, but 1/16" or 1/8", you can't tell.

I don't believe these sliding saws are as accurate as some say they are.

Greg

[Greg Roberts]

Hi Greg, I have been using the same saw you have ( with a 10.5' slider ) for the last 5 years. IMO, you are over complicating this, USE THE RIP FENCE. I still don't understand why people want to rip on the slider. Use the slider to straight line the piece then go to the rip fence to get your parallel cuts, its that simple. No worrying about if the board is precisely against the crosscut fence and no setting up two stops ( if you are using the parallel ripping device ). I have ripped thousands of board feet of hardwoods and hundreds of sheets of plywood using this technique.

It is a little awkward using the rip fence. It took me about a week to get used to leaning over the sliding table, after that, it seems natural to me, and I would never go back to a cabinet saw.

I think if you give it some more time, you will be very happy with what that saw can do.

just my opinion.

I think you might be right.

I made some rip cuts today, using the rip fence and I have to admit that standing to the left of the sliding table worked pretty well. I think I can get used to this. They were pretty short pieces though.

I also made a couple of wider rips, like 20", and I realized that ergonomically, that is fine standing where I normally did with my cabinet saw. Because the fence was farther to the right, I had room to stand and push the material through without the sliding table base getting in my way.

It's the narrower pieces that are difficult to do in the traditional way. So for those, I will stand to the left of the sliding table. I haven't tried longer stock though. Something like a 12' long 2" wide piece. I wonder how that will work. probably start off feeding it in the normal way, behind the blade, and then step around to the left of the sliding table.

Greg

[Greg Roberts]

So, I have another question.

I need an acute angle on a piece of plywood. The piece is a 5/8" thick, 12" x 26" and I need the cut to be very shallow, like as much as I can get out of the blade with the blade all the way up. Hard to explain this. The plywood would be up on the 26" long edge, usually standing up against the fence.

How do I make this cut with my Felder? The blade tilts to the right, towards the fence, and unlike my cabinet saw, I can't put the fence on the other side of the blade.

Probably some way to use a sacrificial piece of wood up against the fence, but I'm not quite seeing it right now. What a pain in the butt. I didn't realize this stuff when I bought this saw.

I haven't yet mentioned the engineering degree you need to be able to use the $1,000 Felder dado set.

I know I'm sounding like I'm complaining a lot. I don't mean to, but I'm frustrated. I know the K700S is a very high quality machine. But I did a lot of research into a lot of different machines (probably well over 100 hours of time on the internet) and all along the way I never once was told about any of these anomolies that I'm running into now that I'm using it.

Greg

[johnny means]

I don't believe these sliding saws are as accurate as some say they are.

Greg

I don't believe anyone would buy these saws if they couldn't predictably make cuts within a 16th over 8 feet. You will get a lot more mileage out of trouble shooting and solving this issue than you will from throwing your hands up assuming that all the hype must be a lie.

I have an old beat up SCMI that looks like it fought in Iraq and I expect it to reliably cut 8" x 96" rips within a 64th on the crosscut fence. Now, that did require me to spend a couple of days tinkering and I'm sure I lost a few more hairs in the process, but once I got it done I was more that satisfied with the cuts I was getting and learned a lot about this particular saw.

[James A Voos]

Greg,
I have found it very difficult to relay and also to understand these type of problems without seeing them in person. Maybe as a long-time Felder owner (I have a BF7-41 combo, 16" j/p, and 700 series shaper), and co-founder of the FOG, can I suggest you put your hand up on the FOG and see if there is a long time user in your area that might help you out and work thru the issues. We owners are usually more than willing to take a little drive to help out a fellow owner.

Just a suggestion, and you might even find a toolmate that would be willing to pass along some tips. Good luck with your machine. Once you work out the alignment issues, it should give you years of service without a hick-up.

[charles argo]

I have had my Felder for about a year now, and I had similar issues when using only the crosscut fence with long sheets. Too easy to skew the cut slightly. So I use the parallel guide for almost all my rips and problem solved. The sliding arm pops on or off in a couple seconds, so I just leave the table on all the time and put the arm back on as needed. If I wanted to keep pushing work through the blade against a rip fence, I'd have kept my Powermatic. I don't consider the parallel guide a PIA at all...I get perfect rips every time. It's why I bought a slider.

[joe milana]

Greg, did you consider crosscuting your sheet first to clean up the factory edge? It may sit tighter to the crosscut fence if you do. On that acute angle cut, have you considered making a tall axillary fence that clamps to the slider. You could clamp your piece to it in a vertical position and use the slider to feed the board through the blade.