Veneering Setup Costs

[Mike Swindell]

I found this on Ebay, looks like a great deal:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...857984897&rd=1

[Mike Scoggins]

Dave,

With respect to veneer costs, it depends on where you buy it. I've had great lick on Ebay (P-Mail me for a couple of sellers I've had great luck with). Expect to pay about $1 per sf for fairly figured veneer, between $1-3 per sf for extremely figured veneer. After figuring costs for substrates, glues, and veneer for both sides, it costs about 25% of the cost for comparable solid wood.

Thanks for the information regarding veneering costs. If and when I get a system I may take you up on the offer and contact you regarding sellers on eBay.


Mike,

Thanks for the tips, leads, and links.

All,

This thread has really been helpful to me. Thanks to all who have provided input.

Mike

[Herb Blair]

You know, that's what I love about forums like this. I've been obseessing for the last week, looking for good 30 gauge vinyl. I can find 20 mil locally, but 30 seems to be a rare beast around my parts. And now I find out that I could just use garbage bags, or if I really want to go upscale, some shower curtains.
. Thanks guys for all the information.

Steve

The 30 gauge vinyl is available from Rochfordsupply http://www.rochfordsupply.com
for about 8.45/yard. The material is 54" wide. They have excellent service.

[Bill Arnold]

You know, that's what I love about forums like this. I've been obseessing for the last week, looking for good 30 gauge vinyl. I can find 20 mil locally, but 30 seems to be a rare beast around my parts. And now I find out that I could just use garbage bags, or if I really want to go upscale, some shower curtains.
. Thanks guys for all the information.
Steve

LOL -- Yeah, well I'm not saying the shower curtain is the best way to go, but it feels like it's about 10 mils, it's cheap and I can make a few of different sizes as necessary. Also, when doing a lamination against a large form (curved apron, for example), I'd think nothing of cutting a $6 shower curtain to fit -- wouldn't want to start slicing up more expensive material for that application.

Regards,

[Garnet Foster]

I bought one of the kits online and it worked fine for me but I noticed that you have to press the thick black tape they provided for sealing firmly down and check it for air pathways through the tape. Held fine for me. Only problem I had was opening the tape seal. Figured it out after a while. The bag I bought is shaped to fit a skate board deck but I think they also have a square bag. The kit probably would not work for any big projects but worked fine for the chair I am working on.

[Per Swenson]

Hi,
I have a freind who owns a large hvac business, He
gave me the pump for sevices rendered. Information
is off the joe woodworker site. I bought 20mil vinly at the local
fabric store. The key is the HH66 vinyl cement. If you round off
everthing, platten etc. It will reduce the chance of leaks.
Also I use plain fiberglass bug screen between the veneer and the top platten.
This bag has been used weekly for the last year. No problems.
I am a pack rat and most of the materials to construct this,
I all ready had. So its silly for me to guess at cost.
Good deals on ebay veneers. I have three that are honest with
excellent quality. You can PM me for their names.
I hope this helps.
Per

[Garnet Foster]

The pumps you guys are using look pretty big for what you seem to be pressing. Why not use a miniature, low volume, high HG pump that can run continuous like the ones sold by KNF. Do you need all the tank and stuff if the pump is rated to run all day?

[Bill Arnold]

The pumps you guys are using look pretty big for what you seem to be pressing. Why not use a miniature, low volume, high HG pump that can run continuous like the ones sold by KNF. Do you need all the tank and stuff if the pump is rated to run all day?

Garnet,

Many of us who have built our own vacuum bagging system purchase a pump from a surplus outlet or pawn shop for pennies on the dollar. These are generally the type of pump used to evacuate an A/C system and can run for several hours. Some of us add a vacuum-controlled switch so the pump doesn't have to run all the time, thus increasing the life of the pump. If the bag itself seals well, there is no need for the pump to run continuously.

What is the cost of a KNF vacuum pump? Are you affiliated with them?

Regards,

[lou sansone]

my 02.


I agree with herb and bill arnold. I have a similar home made set up.

for the vinyl, If you can find a boat yard that makes waterproof covers for boats, they have the 20 or 30 mil stuff. it was about 100 bucks for enought to to 2 8 foot bag and have some left over for patches and liners. I use the plastic pipe and roll up the end around it. no leaks
lou

[Bill Arnold]

To help distribute the air flow around the bag so an even pressure is placed at all points, I got a roll of 'pet proof' screen material. Standard plastic screen material seemed a bit fragile to me, but the heavier stuff works well. I got a roll at the borg, but I'm sure other suppliers have it as well.

[Garnet Foster]

Garnet,

Many of us who have built our own vacuum bagging system purchase a pump from a surplus outlet or pawn shop for pennies on the dollar. These are generally the type of pump used to evacuate an A/C system and can run for several hours. Some of us add a vacuum-controlled switch so the pump doesn't have to run all the time, thus increasing the life of the pump. If the bag itself seals well, there is no need for the pump to run continuously.

What is the cost of a KNF vacuum pump? Are you affiliated with them?

Regards,

I only wish. My introduction to veneering was with a kit I bought online that works well but now that I have had a tast of the process I am thinking of stepping up to a larger system. I have been looking at the pumps you guys have built, they are all great but they take up a lot of shop space that I do not have. So I looked around and there are about a dozen manufacturers of small/miniature low volume/high hg pumps. I found one retail company/woodworker who uses this type of pump and he seemed to think they work great. I like to know if anyone else has tried one.
Is all the tubing, check valves and tanks necessary if you can buy a pump that runs forever under load?

[Bill Arnold]

... So I looked around and there are about a dozen manufacturers of small/miniature low volume/high hg pumps. I found one retail company/woodworker who uses this type of pump and he seemed to think they work great. I like to know if anyone else has tried one.
Is all the tubing, check valves and tanks necessary if you can buy a pump that runs forever under load?

Garnet,

Using a pump that can run continuously, I suppose you could get by with running a tube straight from the pump to the bag and be done with it. It's easy to tell when enough vacuum has been achieved to accomplish a specific task.

You mention a 'low volume/high hg' pump. What is the CFM rating of the pump you have in mind? If the CFM is too low, the glue could set before the bag is evacuated.

On the 'high hg' side of the matter, what is the rating of the pump? Some people believe you MUST achieve a vacuum of more than -25"hg. I have my system set to keep the vacuum between -15 and -20 which has been enough for everything from flat panels to a bentwood lamination with a 29" radius.

My position would still be to install a vacuum switch even with a pump rated for constant operation. After a bag has been evacuated, the pump should run only a few seconds every minute or so. Even if the pump is rated for constant operation, it has an estimated lifetime; running it less will make it last longer.

Regards,

[Herb Blair]

I use two pieces of mdf, each with a piece of plastic laminate attached to one face, the other face is scored on the table saw on a 1" grid, about 1/8" deep.
This provides an escape path for the air. I used a 1/4" round over bit to ease the edges, and I rounded the corners so as not to provide any sharp points to the bag material.
As I mentioned in my previous post, Rochford Supply sells the bag material at about 8.50 per yard. The material is 54" wide x 36" per yard. so you can easily make a very large bag by folding it over and sealing with HH66 vinyl cement. Joe woodworker site has all the info and the valve to connect the pump.
In use, I found that the end sealing method described on the JWW site works, but requires a lot of clamps. I use about 10 clamps to seal it, and once sealed and pumped down, the pump hardly every kicks back on overnight.