Where to put a shop?

[Dan Oelke]

Hmmm - lots of good stuff to think about.

My current attached garage is 3+ car - about 30x26 (I think I remember that right - but my memory isn't that good). The building I am looking to build would be about 35x28 (980 sq ft).

I've attached a rough sketch of my current garage. The problem is that I need more ground floor "garage" type storage. If I clear out my shop stuff that I have in there today (there really isn't a place for my new 8" jointer - except that we aren't parking vechicles in there currently....) then I could probably fit in the small tractor (a 1952ish Ferguson) that is currently at the in-laws. But that doesn't leave space for the pop-up camper (currently in storage, but sits outside all summer). If I take over the ground floor of the new building for my shop, then I have to figure out where the camper goes.

I have thought about buliding the new building and then as soon as it's signed off putting a lean-to carport on the side, but that seems not right. I like having stuff "in" and out of sight.

The family room won't help get SWMBO buy-in - I already have her ok to build "something" and she is wanting the basement finished off (it's half finished now) for the big family room.

Lou - thanks for the links to all your threads. I have been really enjoying them! A question or two for you. I have looked pretty extensively at various beam type solutions for a second floor. Since my size is tenatively 28 x 35, I'd be looking at a 35' beam down the center and then 14' floor joists. Or - maybe one post in the center. (much easier at 17-18' span - that can be done with LVL) I have access to an uncle who can get big/thick steel and the press to form it. My problem is trying to figure out how to size that beam. It would be made up from 3/8 or 1/2 (or thicker?) steel. I can do the load calculations for how much weight, but I don't know where to find something for sizing the beam.

I don't plan on having Lou sized iron in my shop. My current contractor table saw is ok (lusting for a nice cabinet saw) and my 8"x75" jointer will be the biggest/heaviest items that I can forsee for quite a while. If I don't get bit by some old-iron bug getting that equipment upstairs shouldn't be too hard. I have thought about an outside entrance, but don't want to deal with icy steps - the area isn't real condusive to building it into the hillside. Maybe 2 foot of hill is about all I could get.

I am debating on height. Having a high ceiling is nice. I grew up with my dad's workshop in the basement with about 7.5' ceilings. Not bad, but annoying sometimes. My current garage has 10' celiings. Very nice, but maybe a little excessive. I was thinking 8-9' would be ok. I rarely find myself bumping a board into the 10' celing. Evidence of this is that I have yet to break one of the several bare bulbs on the ceiling, and I am not that careful or coordinated. However, this building will be just off to the side of the main house and I don't want it to overpower it. I am thinking of doing gambrel type roof so that the second floor is all under the roof, yet I won't end up with just a narrow hall-like room if I used even just a 12/12 straight pitch. Using Gambrel also means that on the sides at least my siding/wall appearnce is much shorter. I want to keep this thing to 20-24 feet high.

(grrr - can't get attachements to work... so here it is inline....)

[Tom LaRussa]

My current attached garage is 3+ car - about 30x26 (I think I remember that right - but my memory isn't that good). The building I am looking to build would be about 35x28 (980 sq ft).

I've attached a rough sketch of my current garage.

That's fine, so far as it goes, but we really need to see more detail before we can truly apply our collective genius to sending you into debt for the rest of your lifer ... er ... I mean, to creating a nice shop space for you.

Some questions:

[1] how does the current garage relate to the house?

• Where does the door (3 steps up) lead, kitchen? mud-room? laundry room?
• What is behind the back wall of the garage?

[2] How does the proposed out-building sit on the land? Is it next to the house, i.e., fronting along the street? Is it behind the house? Sort of diagonally behind? What?

The problem is that I need more ground floor "garage" type storage.

Would it be possible to site the shop building close enough to the house to use it as the garage, rather than the attached garage? I'm guessing not, given the winters you have up there.

If not, then we have to pull out all the stops...

How about something along these lines?


Arrange the garage like this:



And arrange the new space like this: (Note that I've switched the dimensions of the new space to 25 x 40.)

The family room won't help get SWMBO buy-in - I already have her ok to build "something" and she is wanting the basement finished off (it's half finished now) for the big family room.

Will the new building have a basement?

I am debating on height. Having a high ceiling is nice. I grew up with my dad's workshop in the basement with about 7.5' ceilings. Not bad, but annoying sometimes. My current garage has 10' celiings. Very nice, but maybe a little excessive. I was thinking 8-9' would be ok. I rarely find myself bumping a board into the 10' celing.

I bump them into my 8' 4" ceiling all the time. If my shop had a them song it would be It's raining glass!

[lou sansone]

hi dan


It does take a lot of time running this through your mind for all the pro/con of various designs. I have 1 steel beam in my post and beam shop. I wanted a 28' clear span and that would be pretty tough using only timber. It can be done, but the wooden beam gets so big that it is not practical. Eventhough I am an engineer by trade and education, I did not bother with load calculations. There is a very large steel shop in the town next to mine and I simply showed them my sketched plans and had them suggest a beam. They recommneded a 16" beam width and I asked for the next larger size, which turned out to be 18" x6" x 1/2 thick material. I had them add a bunch of gussets where it would have to tie into my post and beam frame and punch holes along the top to bolt 4x6 runners for the roof to attach to. they painted it and trucked it to my job site all for less than $1k. Seemed like a no brainer to me. So if you are thinking about the steel beam then the center mount like you were suggesting seems fine. Find someone who specializes in this and let them do the work. That is my .02cents worth.

keep thinking

lou

[PeterTorresani]

I would build the shop to the right of the house on the high ground. If you build it in front of the existing garage, you will have better access for the getting the trailer, et al in and out. I think that you have more curb appeal (no curb) if you put it behind and to the right. The higher ground will keep water out. see photo.

from the point of this picture, go North, left on 85th, then your first right, first left, first right, fifth house on the right, you be in my driveway. (About 2 miles)

I am planning on building this summer as well. We'll need to talk about sharing contacts

[Jim Becker]

Pete, if your building will be "close" to your house, you'll want to consider styling it so that they blend well for "curb appeal". This could make for a meaningful difference financially if you have to sell in the future and also just plain reduces athestic tension. I really struggled with that...particularly roof lines...in the preliminary designs I've been doing for a future home addition. It has to blend with the existing dwelling as well as my shop building...

[Tom LaRussa]

Peter,

Here's an idea for how to save on electricity in the new shop.

[Dan Oelke]

Wow - Hi Peter! That is actually a picture of my house that Peter took - because he lives just up the road from me.

That is EXACTLY where I was planning on putting the shed. And by zoning requirements I have to side it the same or similar as the house.

So - extending on that idea and since Peter was kind enough to snap a photo of the front of my house - any thoughts as to if a gambrel style roof as sketched in would "blend" ok? I was actually thinking of putting the garage doors on the left side of the building and just having windows on the end facing the street - but that is something I really haven't thought much about. The end facing the street would be the gable end. I was planning on the shed being slightly closer to the street than then main structure - mostly for ease of entry - and partially because putting it parallel with the main structure would put it right on top of the vegetable garden. Moving the clothesline is no big deal, but the garden which has 6 years and a gazillion loads of compost and manure on it might be an "issue" with SWMBO.

[Steve Stube]

Maybe something with a lower profile would blend in better.

[PeterTorresani]

I am not sure what the exact rules are for matching exterior and architectural style, but the city has a web site (http://www.ci.otsego.mn.us/ )and the building department has been pretty helpful. I believe there is a code for overall height being less than the main structure.

As a matter of opinion, I don't think a gambrel roof the way I drew it would look very good (not just the face). I think if you rotated it 90 degrees and added dormers than match the house, it would look much better (one man's opinion). I can't tell what this would do to accessibility, but it might be a problem

[Dean Baumgartner]

My shop is in a detached building. 30x30 so at 900 sq ft it's under your limit. The shop space is the ground floor with a 15x30 storage room upstairs. With 4" insulation in the walls and 6" in the ceiling one 1500 watt electric heater keeps it at about 40 degrees even in the coldest part of a Wisconsin winter. It sure is nice being able to work any time and not wake up everybody in the house and being detached it keeps all the mess out.


I had the same concern about tools, just basic things..cordless drill, screwdriver pliers and the like. I went to the BORG and bought a cheaper set of tools and tool box that I keep in the house along with some basic fasteners. This covers 90%+ of the need and for anything more the shop and everything in it are only 50' away. Seems to work pretty well.

Dean

[John Bush]

Hi Dan,
Congrats on the new endeavor! I built a 1560sqft shop with 600sqft as an upstairs arts/crafts area for wife and kids. It is now wood storage and a practice room for the kids rock band friends. I keep all my machines on the ground floor and have done only assembly and finishing upstairs. I agree with the others that hauling stuff up and down the stairs gets to be a PITA and effects efficiency enough that it detracts from the fun factor of woodworking. I'm set up to do all my lawn equip servicing/repairs in the shop, but I have a separate 12'x16' shed for storage. Maybe on a moonless, permitless night one will appear next to your new shop too!!
I plumbed the shop with a utility sink and toilet and heat with in-slab hot water using a natural gas hot water heater. Radiant heat is a great way to go even with the extra $$$.
I designed the shop to look like a cottage to enhance property values and keep the wife happy(neighbors too).
A friend of my wife was visiting and said "What a darling out-building" so now we call it the "Get the &%$# -out building.
I just finished a 5/7 attached shed to house a DC cyclone system. When I get it done I'll do a review with pics. Good luck, John.