Lidded Hollow Form vs Lidded Box

[David DeCristoforo]

Bowl (or "Open Form"): An unarguably useful container that may or may not be attractive for any other reason.

Closed Form: A bowl that is still useful but less so due to it's constricted opening. For example, not as many hands could reach in for popcorn at the same time.

Hollow Form: A shape that is less than useful since the maker was more concerned is seeing how small a hole he could dig the guts of a log out through. Not completely useless because one could still get popcorn into it even though it would be almost impossible to get it out again.

Lidded Box: There is no such thing as a turned lidded box. John Hart has already graphically illustrated the nature of a box. So we must refer to these forma as "lidded containers". Their usefulness, or lack thereof is irrelevant. Any container with a lid qualifies.

Vase: A gray area since, due to the fact that it is made of wood, it cannot really function as a vase.

I hope this settles it...

[John Beaver]

I've seen this discussion before so I thought I'd look it up in the dictionary.

Accordingly a bowl is a "round deep dish used for food or liquid." If you cross reference bowl and vase you get: vessel, container, receptacle, basin, pan, pot, jar, urn, tank, cask, barrel, drum, vat, amphora, crock, box, beaker, bottle, bucket, canteen, carafe, ewer, flask, tub, cistern, samovar, cauldron, jug, ossuary, vault, canister, ramekin, dish, tureen, porringer, and casserole.

Hollowform is not listed in any dictionary I could find.

[Jim Burr]

This is a box
Attachment 191329

Just trying to contribute.

What the heck!! No peanuts? this place just isn't what it used to be

[John Hart]

What the heck!! No peanuts? this place just isn't what it used to be

It's The Economy, Jim. We have to cut corners everywhere....and you're just gonna hafta learn to make due just like all the rest of us.

[Greg Ketell]

Attachment 191312
So the bowl definition needs to be modified to indicate that the opening should be as large as the base or larger

That doesn't quite do it either, though. If the foot is 1" and the opening is 1.2" that isn't a bowl (to me). How about "opening should be as big or bigger than the foot and big enough to easily reach into to grab the contents"?

This same condition also applies to vases and cups (and goblets, for that matter) - if the height of the piece shown is increased until it is greater than the width, it becomes a vase (or a cup, depending on size).

I disagree with this. No cup I've ever seen has had a lip the moved in away from the edge. And I sure wouldn't want to try to drink from one that was that shape.

In addition, the opening in a vase may be considerably smaller than the base and still not qualify the piece as a hollow form. For example:
Attachment 191321
Definitely a vase, not a hollow form.

Why not a HF? It is hollow and the opening is dramatically less than the body. If you cut the neck off at the top of the "bulb" it would be a HF, without question. So a long neck turns a HF into a not-HF?

A further distinction here is between a regular vase and a "bud vase" - the former is usually hollowed to uniform thickness in the bottom portion with walls of equal thickness, while the latter has a simple vertical hole drilled from top to bottom.

I guess "vase"s are just to abstract to really define by shape: I've seen them like the above; I've seen them like a southwest hollow form; I've seem them like a test tube; and I've seen them like your shape above. This particular shape is definitely a hollow form. I could also be a "vase" but primarily it is a HF.

As to boxes, I think the "easily removed" part is viable, but it applies only to the inside of the piece, not the exterior shape. For example, if the bowl shown above had vertical interior sides and a lid while retaining the same exterior shape it could certainly qualify as a box.

IF the lid were on the outside, not the inside or sitting on top, I agree. But if you were to make a lid that naturally fit the shape shown I would make it sit on the opening with a tenon in the hole. That would be a lidded bowl or lidded HF.

As for boxes themselves, nothing says the lid has to fit on the outside of the main turning, and I'm not sure than "snug fit" is a requirement either.

It seems that the more we attempt to define turnings the more we muddy the waters.

I agree 100%!!

And we haven't even looked into the realm of the plate/platter debate.

After an exhaustive discussion of this subject on another forum, one turner finally said, "I know one (vase/bowl/plate/HF/platter/whatever) when I see it."

'Nuf said.

[Frank Van Atta]

Bowl (or "Open Form"): An unarguably useful container that may or may not be attractive for any other reason.

Closed Form: A bowl that is still useful but less so due to it's constricted opening. For example, not as many hands could reach in for popcorn at the same time.

Hollow Form: A shape that is less than useful since the maker was more concerned is seeing how small a hole he could dig the guts of a log out through. Not completely useless because one could still get popcorn into it even though it would be almost impossible to get it out again.

Lidded Box: There is no such thing as a turned lidded box. John Hart has already graphically illustrated the nature of a box. So we must refer to these forma as "lidded containers". Their usefulness, or lack thereof is irrelevant. Any container with a lid qualifies.

Vase: A gray area since, due to the fact that it is made of wood, it cannot really function as a vase.

I hope this settles it...

I agree wholeheatedly - can't get any simpler than this.

[Greg Ketell]

Bowl (or "Open Form"): An unarguably useful container that may or may not be attractive for any other reason.

Closed Form: A bowl that is still useful but less so due to it's constricted opening. For example, not as many hands could reach in for popcorn at the same time.

Hollow Form: A shape that is less than useful since the maker was more concerned is seeing how small a hole he could dig the guts of a log out through. Not completely useless because one could still get popcorn into it even though it would be almost impossible to get it out again.

Lidded Box: There is no such thing as a turned lidded box. John Hart has already graphically illustrated the nature of a box. So we must refer to these forma as "lidded containers". Their usefulness, or lack thereof is irrelevant. Any container with a lid qualifies.

Vase: A gray area since, due to the fact that it is made of wood, it cannot really function as a vase.

I hope this settles it...

I like it. Let's carve it in stone!!