moisture meter

[Bill Sanson]

Hey all,

I am a fairly serious hobbiest and am now in need of a moisture meter. I buy most of my wood air dried and plan to finish it off myself. I need a decent meter to help me out. I know the wagner 220 is supposed to be the cats meow but 375 is a bit steep for this cat. I am wondering what suggestions anyone might offer? Has anyone tried the timbercheck? I would prefer pinless but i would perfer more the ability to afford it? thanks ahead of time,

[Kent A Bathurst]

Bill - I decided to get a meter. From everything I've read, including the knowledge base here, my conclusion [as opposed to absolute gospel] was that the pinless works fine on surfaced wood in the 3/4"-ish range. Performance seemed suspect on rough sawn and thicker boards. You can get a lot of SMC threads on the topic using the search function.

I had [for only a few months] a pin style - bought from a Creeker - worked fine. But then I got a bunch of air-dried 8/4 QSWO that actually measured out closer to 9/4. The meter I had was the wrong size hammer for that nail - by far. Pin length, plus simply could not penetrate the WO. I resold the meter, here on the creek, and bought new a delmhorst so I could get their slide-hammer attachment. on the price. But - the pin length will get to the center of the of the 8/4 and that slide hammer is the ticket for the WO - stuff's like concrete. The measurement was significantly different than what I had read with the first meter, which I knew would be the case, which was the whole point.

Waaayyyyy more than I had ever wanted to spend. But - I'm set for life. Functions perfectly. So - the point is: buy whatever it is that suits your work, and cry only once. I'd imagine that most people have no need for the slide-hammer accessory, which opens up a big range of manufacturers and models.

[Harvey Pascoe]

I've used moisture meters professionally in another line of work and so know a bit about them.

I have a pinless and it works fine on 8/4 - haven't tried it on anything thicker. It works on virtually any porous material. I don't think it matters what kind, mfgr, etc as it is the relative moisture you're dealing with. Accuracy really isn't a big issue because testing proves that meters do NOT actually measure the true % of moisture, all they do is give you an indication of relative moisture. You get a sense of relative by using the meter across a range of woods, some you know are dry (as in kiln dried) w/o using the meter and comparing that with other readings.

No matter what kind of meter you buy, always test it against kiln dried wood. Some meters have a calibration adjustment, as mine does. I put it on a piece of KD pine and then adjust it to zero.

[Bill Davis]

I am curious, when you say 'kiln dried' [some you know are dry (as in kiln dried) w/o using the meter and comparing that with other readings] do you mean dried to some specific MC? My understanding is that KD needs a MC attached to it since it means different things depending upon use or purpose. Construction grade may be KD to a higher MC than KD for furniture manufacture.

[michael osadchuk]

I am curious, when you say 'kiln dried' [some you know are dry (as in kiln dried) w/o using the meter and comparing that with other readings] do you mean dried to some specific MC? My understanding is that KD needs a MC attached to it since it means different things depending upon use or purpose. Construction grade may be KD to a higher MC than KD for furniture manufacture.

"some (wood) you know is dry" = wood of the same species or the same density that has been sitting in your living room (or other final destination of your project); that piece of wood will have reached equilibrium moisture content for your home in your region in that particular season

if the new wood is within a per cent or two of the same moisture content as the above wood, measured by the same meter, regardless of whether your reading is 11% and, if the same wood pieces were in my area and measured 8%, the wood would be fine to use

I have an Electrophysics pinless digital #101, with convenient dial density adjustment; it cost me $275 Canadian a dozen years ago; recently I picked up for $22 a pin type meter at the local Princess Auto (think Harbour Freight) just for fun and apart from the bells and whistles of the Electrophysics and arguments about how deep into the wood a pinless is effective vs. a pin meter, both meters come back with the same readings, within a percent point, on all types of wood.

Moisture meters, like digital volt/ammeter/resistance meters a couple of decades ago, for the 'hobbyist/amateur/homeowner, are no longer three digit dollar items... if you are a tradesperson, I can see spending several hundred dollars but I don't believe it is necessary to get pretty much the same functionality.

good luck

michael

[Bret Duffin]

I bought one at HD for thirty bucks or less. I use it as Harvey suggested, to "judge" relative moister content. It has some small pins attached to the case that should only be pushed in by hand. With that and dead reckoning I get a pretty good idea of what I'm dealing with.

You can also time your wood. I live in a dry climate. If the wood has been stacked, dry and stickered for a good year 4/4 is probably plenty dry, 5/4 maybe, another 6 mos to a year for 8/4. Depend s on the species.

Bret

[Don Morris]

I too am a serious hobbyist and had a couple experiences with wood that moved that wished didn't. So a moisture meter was indicated. After doing the "search" as you have done, a pinless was what I came up with and the posts here led me to the conclusion as one creeker said: buy once, cry once and be set for life. I did. It's a well known brand. They all have their cheerleaders. Get a decent one. But, I can take it to the wood source with me and/or if I find one that I like (but there's no hurry) that is still a little too wet, can bring it home, put it in a dry space until it shows me numbers I like. It's a long term investment. Run a 8/4 piece of wood through your joiner then get the other side parallel with your planer, then put it on the TS, rip it into 2 pieces and see it warp because the middle was too wet. A $250.00+ moisture meter didn't seem like a bad idea to me then.

[Cody Colston]

First, realize that wood is hygroscopic...it will absorb and desorb moisture depending on the RH of it's environment. Kiln dried only means that it was dried to a specific MC in a kiln AT ONE TIME. It does not mean that the wood is still at that particular MC. In fact, odds are that it isn't.

A decent hygrometer to measure RH where you store your wood may be more important than a moisture meter. If you know the average RH, then you can know where the MC of the wood will acclimate...reach equilibrium. Hygrometers can be purchased at Home Centers, Wal-Mart, Garden Centers...lots of places and they are relatively inexpensive. The following calculator will tell you the MC for a particular RH and temperature, although between 40 and 120 degrees, temperature is insignificant. http://www.csgnetwork.com/emctablecalc.html

I have two moisture meters, a General that cost $30 at Home Depot and a Mini-Ligno ED that cost $108 online. I got the Lignomat because it was deemed the best moisture meter under $200 by FWW magazine. Both are pin meters and both read within 1% of each other. I went with pin meters because I had read that pinless meters had problems correctly reading MC on rough-sawn wood and that's all I buy. I also frequently have trees milled which are rough-sawn.

I think you are wise in wanting to know the MC of your wood before working it. I read lots of comments on forums where people talk intelligently about moisture content and wood movement only to discover that they do not have or use a meter or a hygrometer. That's working blind and will eventually lead to an expensive repair/rebuild of a piece of furniture.

[Bill Sanson]

Hey all,

thanks for the reply it seems there is a lot of info out there and I have read my share but wanted some ideas form people like me that have meters already. I like the idea of a hygrometer as I live in Halifax Nova Scotia which was mentioned along with Boston as two very bad places for wood movement due to humidity fluxuations. I added a link (if it works or not showing the changes here in Halifax) if anyone is interested. I am trying to wrap my head around how the best way to use the pieces of info that a hygrometer and a moisture meter give me. I am assuming that I will be seeing if the wood is at equalibrium with the surroundings? I buy mostly rough sawn airdried wood so this is very important for me to figure out. If kiln dried wood is down around 6% but humidity here is very high wouldnt the KD move to a higher content and make it easier for air dried to reach equalibrium as it doesnt have to get as low? I guess I am trying to sooth my worried about air dried wood and understand in the same breath how wood will move here and what i need to be weary of.....

[Bill Sanson]

http://halifax.weatherstats.ca/metri..._humidity.html

link as promised...

[Kent A Bathurst]

If kiln dried wood is down around 6% but humidity here is very high wouldnt the KD move to a higher content and make it easier for air dried to reach equalibrium as it doesnt have to get as low?

Bingo - you've got it. Some observations:
1] If you have a piece of kiln-dried wood, of the same species you routinely use, and let it sit unmolested in your shop, it will reach equilibrium - and maintain equilibrium as the seasons change - and you will always have a reference stick for comparison to other stuff.
2] There are on-line references that will help translate changes in RH or MC into dimensional movement. My impression, and this has also been mentioned here by guys smarter than me, is that these tend to overstate the amount of movement - they give you the worst case. Regardless, I do go there to check to see where the fences are in the ballpark. Here is one: http://woodbin.com/calcs/shrinkulator.htm
3] My personal experience is that many - perhaps most - of the things I deal with can accept the "extremes" in the design without impacting the appearance or function. this is not always the case, of course - sometimes I need to tighten up the "slop" built in for movement.
4] I love Nova Scotia. Have spent many weeks there over many years, and also in PEI and Newfoundland. <<...insert jealous smilie here...>>

Good luck - don't get too wrapped around the axle on this one - it is important to have a working understanding of what's happening, but after your wood is at or relatively near equilibrium, everything is fine from there on with reasonable accomodations in the design [unless you are shipping finished pieces to your relatives that live in Phoenix - then you're screwed ].

[Curt Harms]

Hey all,
<snip>
If kiln dried wood is down around 6% but humidity here is very high wouldnt the KD move to a higher content and make it easier for air dried to reach equalibrium as it doesnt have to get as low? I guess I am trying to sooth my worried about air dried wood and understand in the same breath how wood will move here and what i need to be weary of.....

Wood will move, kiln dried or not. I would expect more movement in Nova Scotia than in Las Vegas for example. I've seen claims where the cells of kiln dried wood change to make them less prone to expanding when in humid conditions. I don't know if that's true or not or to what extent. A moisture meter is a good investment IMO if for nothing more than checking lumber weekly for changes. If the indicated moisture declines over time it seems like a good idea to not use it 'til it is stable for a few weeks. I store lumber in a pretty dry basement shop. Kiln dried lumber will run 10%+ in the summer and air dried lumber will run 6% in the winter when the heat is on. Giving some thought to designing to account for inevitable wood movement is primary, I think.

[Richard Amabile]

Cody:

I second your recommendation about the use of a hygrometer. I purchased two of them (different manufacturers) over the years and when put next to each other they read within 1% of each other. They were each under $30 a piece. I use them to get an idea of the relative humidity in the shop. This helps not only with keeping the lumber at a constant moisture content (I use a dehumidifier that runs almost all the time) but also with insuring that the shop does not get so humid that I will have serious rust problems.
I purchased a cheap meter from a big box store and it was reading 20% on some 2 inch walnut (rough but from a kiln). That just didn't seem right. But, I knew that if it was even close to correct I could not use the wood for a long time while it acclimated. I purchases a Lgno Scanner D which is a pinless meter that reads to 3/4 inch deep. When I checked the wood with that meter it read more in the range of 14%. I then checked it against some red oak (2 inch thick) that had been in the shop for 8 years. That read 8%. So, I felt that there was a good realive guide being provided by the meter. Between using the hygrometer to keep the relative humidity down in the shop and using the Ligno Scanner to check the moisture content of the actual lumber, I should be able to have a reasonalbe amount of confidence in the moisture content of the wood so I know when it is OK to use it without major problems arising.

[Bill Sanson]

Ok, i think i finally got it threw this thick melon of mine Not an easy task apparently... thanks everyone for the great answers I am off to buy the hygrometer tomorrow and I think I am still in a bit of a debate about pinned or pinless meters but am leaning towards the timbercheck as it got good reviews and is probably the only one I can find around here at LV
Glad to hear that you like it here so much Ken I LOVE it! I grew up in Cape Breton Island on the Bras D'or Lakes and being around the world many times still think it is one of the most beautiful places in the world. the next time you are up you'' have to come over for some lobster on the bbq, they are in season now and going for a whopping 6 bucks a lb

thanks all

[Kenneth Moar]

I have used the "Timbercheck" from LV for many years, guessing close to ten years. It has served very well, it's rugged, and reasonably accurate I guess. Getting the pins into a piece of jatoba, or even padauk can be a challenge. If I have a stack of lumber air drying, I might drive in two finish nails as temporary pins, and use two wires /alligator clips to connect the meter. Simplifies the measuring process.
I'm now looking for a meter that will measure above 25% MC, and I think one of the Lignomat models will do the job. Halifax is a great place, and the harbour is cleanish now!!