Trotec Speedy 300 - Reporting for Duty, Sir!

[Scott Shepherd]

Hi Scott, no more 1 touch? Did you rub some white paint in there? Also how much did you sell that pc for? Looks like the size is 16" x 16"

1-touch wouldn't process it, said the image was too large. I didn't rub paint in it, that's directly off the laser. The piece of granite was 17 1/5" x 14 1/2", if I recall correctly. The customer supplied the material. I'd rather not publicly post the price, but I'll say this is probably the first photograph I've done and been profitable on. The customer also called and said they wanted another one and they'd be bringing me another piece of material soon.

The machine is still overwhelming me mainly because of the work flow. There are things I've done different on the ULS for years and now moving over to this work flow has been a challenge. Not because it's hard, but just because it's different. Different for a good reason too. The differences allow for a completely different way to do work, which I'm excited about, and also struggling with, breaking my old habits.

[donald bugansky]

Scott,

Can you share the settings you used for the 3/4" acrylic? I've got a 75 watt and I'd like to compare.

Thx - Bugs

[Scott Shepherd]

Bugs, that was Matt that was cutting the 3/4" acrylic. I don't have anything that thick so I haven't cut it yet. Next time I'm in my plastic suppliers place, I'll see if I can pick up a scrap piece to see if it'll cut it.

[Scott Shepherd]

It's been about 7 weeks now and the machine had gotten a good workout. It's run 7 days a week, 12 hours a day for the last month.

Overall, I'm very happy with the machine. It's hard to believe how fast it is. When I can get a few minutes, I'm going to create a video demonstrating how fast it is compared to our Universal. I can honestly say I've never seen a machine this fast before, and I'm not referring to the fact it's 75W. I'm referring to just how fast it moves. It will vector mark like nothing I've seen on the market. I think I'll do the video of a laser buzz item to show just how fast it is.

I was falling behind this week and decided to set the same job up on the Universal. Granted, there is a big power difference, but it took less than 1/2 the time.

I have zero complaints about the machine itself. I can say that I'm still struggling with the driver. I actually like the Universal driver better. I'd love to have the Universal driver running the Trotec.

On the Universal, in Corel, my page size matches my table (24" x 18"). If I send a job over that's 2" x 2", then I can move that 2" x 2" job all over the table, in the job control software. In essence, even though the page size in corel is 24" x 18", it knows the graphic is 2" x 2" and allows me to manipulate it as such. On the Trotec, if I have a Corel page size of 24" x 17" (different Y-Axis travel), and my graphic is 2" x 2", and I send it over, it goes over as the whole page. So I can't move that item at all because it thinks the entire job is 24" x 17". What they want you to do is send the job over as 2" x 2", then you can move it all around. What that means from a work flow basis is that you have to change the the dimensions in the print driver EVERY time you send a job over. Frankly, it stinks. Of course, I could be missing some setting that automatically sets it.

I find a number of buggy items in the driver. Most that can be worked around fairly easily. For instance, if you send a page over that matches the table size, and you change the engraving direction from top to bottom, it automatically changes the table size to .002" less than the max table size, so when you try and put the next job on the table, it gives an error and says there is no more room on the table. You can open the settings and change it back, and then you're back in business. It only does that when you change engraving direction.

But none of the issues are what I'd call serious. All of them are in the minor irritants category, nothing that causes any production issues.

The "material database" is confusing to say the least. It's very easy to overwrite a solid, good setting you use all the time. It need some work there, for sure. Also, you can't change settings on the fly, unless the color is red or black, which seems really strange to me. That's the stuff that makes me want my Universal driver, which you can change any thing, any color, any time, on the fly.

One more thing I don't quite understand, is that it scans the entire job before it starts moving. That's where the problems arise when sending jobs over that are full page. If you have a sheet the same size as the table and it's all vector cutting, it can take 40 seconds or so from the time you hit start to the time the machine actually starts cutting, as it scans the page. I don't get that. Logically, that doesn't work well. Who wants to wait 40 seconds for a job to start once you hit the start button? Again, it could be my computer, and it could be something I'm not doing right. Maybe someone more experienced will read this and tell me how to resolve that issue.

However, if the job has rastering and vectoring, the engraving starts when the "scan" hits the rastering as the scan goes down the page. So it normally starts in just a few seconds. You'll only have time issues when you have a table full of vector cutting only.

That all might sound negative, but I'm actually coming at it from the position of someone that's owned 3 lasers now. I could do the same for all 3 lasers, so this isn't meant to trash the Trotec, but only point out the few minor things it needs to push it from a 9 to a 10 from the user standpoint.

I love the machine. It's just incredible. It really screams and it's pretty easy to use. I can't wait until this job is over so I can get some videos up. I think pictures are worth 1000 words in this case.

[Mike Null]

Steve

I think you can do everything you want to do with Job Control. Call me and I'll point you in the right direction.

On the changing settings on the fly--I don't know what you mean--you can change all settings before or after you run a job without resending the job. You do that from within job control.

As far as it scanning the entire page--you simply need to change your setting--that would waste a lot of time especially if you sent a small job over on a full size table plate. In Corel choose "selection" and "minimize to job size after you've selected the art to be engraved. That will eliminate the full table scan.

It also allows you to move the job anyplace on the table. Using this feature in combination with the red dot pointer you can start a job with precision where ever you want.

In my view this is a better driver than Universal but the last time I used Universal was several years ago.

[Scott Shepherd]

Mike, thanks for the help. When I say change the settings on the fly, I mean when the machine is running. I often cut 100's and 100's of parts from a sheet, vector cutting them. I use different colors in the file to control how I want things to burn (don't burn the outside and have it fall out before it burns the inside, etc.). If I use red and green for that, and the machine starts cutting and I immediately feel like I can speed it up or slow it down, I can't, unless it's on the red. You can change things while the machine is running, but only for red and black. Why give me a palette with all those colors I can use and then only allow me to change 2 of them while it's running? When faced with new materials on a weekly basis, it's nice to "tweak" the job as it's running, but I can't unless I use those 2 colors, which causes me issues all over the place on other things with different colors.

Here's a real example- I used 3 colors to engrave some text. 3 colors because the text was at the extreme left and right, and then in the center. The material was hard so the speed was slow. I wanted to raster those 3 colors individually. I used black, blue, and green. As soon as I started with the black, I saw it could be sped up some. I could do that with the black, while it's running, but now I have no way to change the blue and green. On the Universal, I can change any color setting any time, while it's running. I can even change colors that haven't run yet.

On the job size, I can't send a smaller job over, the job takes the whole sheet. So it just sits there and scans for 40 seconds. I just think someone really missed the mark with their logic when they thought it was okay to have a machine sit for 40 seconds after you hit the start button. As I mentioned, it could be my mistake, but I've heard that same complaint from other owners. I will look for the setting in corel for the smaller jobs and see if I can get that working better. Last thing I want to have to do is input the page size into the driver every time I send a job over. With the Universal, my page size in corel never changes. It's always my table size. With the Trotec, they appear to never want you to ever send a file over that has the page size the same size as the corel workspace.

Keeping in mine, I have more files than I can count. Probably well over 20,000 files. All created with the corel workspace at the same size as the table. So if I move a job over to the Trotec, I have to now resize the page and save a second file for the same job (i.e. Job1.cdr, Job1_Trotec.cdr), which I really really really do not want to do for the reason of having to keep up with revisions.

[Dan Hintz]

At least you're able to work with a machine at all, Steve. If you remember from years past, Trotec was in my original search plan, along with ULS and Epilog. I had to drop Trotec from the running because the rep failed to get me any of the promised information.

So fast forward to 2012. We have a new rep, and a few of you guys are able to get a machine in shop... things are different, right? Well, not for me! After a few emails back and forth, a long phone call, and so on I'm thinking things really have changed. The last thing I heard from the rep was over 2 weeks ago... not a peep since.

I know you only have to deal with a rep until the machine gets to you, but it's extremely difficult to recommend a machine that you can't get a hold of, and difficult to recommend a company as a whole that can't seem to find people capable of representing their products.

YMMV...

[Scott Shepherd]

Dan, I understand. I have repeatedly, and I mean REPEATEDLY pointed them to threads like this where people can't get Trotec sales people to call back. Your case isn't an isolated case by any means. You can probably find 20-30 threads on this forum where people said the same thing. Every time I bring it up, I'm told that they talk about it in sales meetings or conference calls, or something. I've been pointing it out to them for about 8 months now. Still nothing appears to change.

The show schedule will fire up here shortly and I'm sure they'll be looking to offer some show specials.

I've had 2 or 3 people contact me, telling me the same story you have, so who knows?

If I had to drive to their factory and make a deal with the President of the company, I'd do it to have this machine. It literally is THAT fast of a machine and worth any sales hassle you might have to deal with. No matter how frustrating that might be, the end goal is the machine on my floor making product. Their service is 100% different than their sales reputation. I've called a number of times and emailed a number of times, asking questions on how to do things. Every time I have called, they actually answered the phone or called me right back, and every time I emailed, I have gotten a prompt response. I'm very happy with their service so far, so it's just that one piece of the puzzle that seems to have the reputation that they do.

[Michael Kowalczyk]

Scott,
Just a thought on your 40 second scan issue, make sure you DO NOT HAVE "engrave" checked for the black or red. Engrave will always scan to see if it has anything to do before it moves onto the next color. There is also a place in the options for high quality engraving if checked will raster the total page even if there is no engraving there, so make sure it is not checked if you do not need it on.

I have never used a Universal or Epilog so I don't favor or dislike their drivers but I do like the control you have with the Trtoec print driver and the options you have while it is in the Que. Try not to keep too many jobs in the que otherwise it takes forever to load. I have asked for them to change that using a sub folder to store the not so often jobs as opposed to archiving them, which isn't that bad, but it sure would speed things up. Also asked for a key touch search. If you want a job that begins with "P", just select the job que and the press "p" and it will narrow it down faster than scrolling through it like many other lists in a window.

Your page issue is and should not be an issue or a concern. When you hit "cntrl P" <in CDR, and then select the "properties" button, there is an option there if you want to use the predefined page or from CDR or user defined. I always use the User defined one because it allows me to see how much time it takes to do 1 at a time and then can add multiples with a simple right click later and if I need to have it nested I can still do it. It works for me.

The help menu and other PDFs that you can get are not the most user friendly since they originate in Austria and then are translated to English. I mentioned this in the very beginning but was told that Austria likes to keep control.

I suggest you go through EVERY menu items and look through the help PDFs at the same time. It is amazing sometimes what you will find out. It took me til the 3rd or 4th year before I found out about the "F8" keys function. Now I use it all the time.

Just a suggestion but before you post that you don't like (no matter how minuscule or minor it is) how something works or it doesn't do this or that, ask your rep or post it here, Mike Null & I or several other Trotec owners/users might have the answer or Keith might even pass us all by having 2 of them now.

[Scott Shepherd]

Michael, a conversation with Mike Null this morning got me straight on the page size thing, so I think we're all good to go on there and I'm happy with the resolution.

I have never used a Universal or Epilog so I don't favor or dislike their drivers but I do like the control you have with the Trtoec print driver and the options you have while it is in the Que. Try not to keep too many jobs in the que otherwise it takes forever to load. I have asked for them to change that using a sub folder to store the not so often jobs as opposed to archiving them, which isn't that bad, but it sure would speed things up. Also asked for a key touch search. If you want a job that begins with "P", just select the job que and the press "p" and it will narrow it down faster than scrolling through it like many other lists in a window.

I agree, I wish they would change the way the sort works. I'd love to see it sort by last job in, first in the que. I have 2000 jobs in the Universal que, and I can go back to any job and see the settings, the time/day it was run, etc. It does a VERY good job at keeping things easy to find, but it also lacks a search. Hopefully we can all work together to get some tweaks done to that area.

The help menu and other PDFs that you can get are not the most user friendly since they originate in Austria and then are translated to English. I mentioned this in the very beginning but was told that Austria likes to keep control.

I have 2 copies of the manual printed and I read them often, believe it or not. I have one copy at work and one at home, so I often pick it up and go through it.

Just a suggestion but before you post that you don't like (no matter how minuscule or minor it is) how something works or it doesn't do this or that, ask your rep or post it here, Mike Null & I or several other Trotec owners/users might have the answer or Keith might even pass us all by having 2 of them now.

I did do just that. I posted what I posted, not to call anyone out or trash anything. I actually posted it to chronicle my experiences, from sitting on the dock to years later, much as I have in the Universal PLS4.60 thread I started years ago. Just for the record, I did ask my sales rep about everything I have listed. I have also talked to tech support about several of the issues. So this wasn't the first place I came to bring them up. Tech support are the ones that told me you could only change 2 colors on the fly, not the full palette. So please don't take anything I post about this machine as trashing it. I wouldn't trash it publicly before some serious frustration on not fixing some issue, which I haven't experienced. I've experienced the machine to be outstanding, rocket fast, and I'm just sharing my experiences as I learn the machine, in hopes to help others who might go through the same thing.

I appreciate the help and suggestions, I'm open for advice from all Trotec owners in case I'm doing something wrong, which is far more possible than there being an issue with the machine! I'll probably post dozens more things that I can't figure out, in hopes that some of your experienced Trotec users can put me on the right path.

[Keith Outten]

I have so much to learn at this point about Trotec machines I am hesitant to even jump into this conversation. I seem to have a grip on the basics which only means I can make the machine engrave but I doubt I am anywhere near being efficient.

I have been reading the PDF files though, looking for any details that will be helpful.

Michael, what is the "F8" keys function?
.

[Keith Outten]

At least you're able to work with a machine at all, Steve. If you remember from years past, Trotec was in my original search plan, along with ULS and Epilog. I had to drop Trotec from the running because the rep failed to get me any of the promised information.

So fast forward to 2012. We have a new rep, and a few of you guys are able to get a machine in shop... things are different, right? Well, not for me! After a few emails back and forth, a long phone call, and so on I'm thinking things really have changed. The last thing I heard from the rep was over 2 weeks ago... not a peep since.

I know you only have to deal with a rep until the machine gets to you, but it's extremely difficult to recommend a machine that you can't get a hold of, and difficult to recommend a company as a whole that can't seem to find people capable of representing their products.

YMMV...

Dan,

Don't ever let a sales rep get in the way of a deal that you want to make. I gave you Amie's phone number, call her again and tell her you want to buy a Trotec laser.
Trotec owners recommend their machines not their sales people

There are three kinds of people in this world:
- People who make things happen.
- People who watch things happen.
- People who don't have a clue what the heck is happening.
Like it or not you have to put yourself in one of these categories.
.

[Scott Shepherd]

Great point Keith. I am constantly stunned when people say they gave up on a machine because their rep didn't do this or that. I stand by my comments. You should pick the machine that fits your needs the best and then make that happen. Why settle with #2,#3, or #4 for YOUR business just because someone wouldn't call you back. Pick up the phone and call them. They don't answer? Call the main office. I can't fathom the thought of allowing a sales rep's actions decide my business needs based on their actions.

I've said it before, I'll say it again, we pick the machine that works the best for us and our needs and we worked through all the stuff needed to get that machine on our floor.

If I had to buy a laser tomorrow, without question, it would be a Trotec. If I can just get a free few minutes, I'll post a video that will show just what we're talking about when it comes to speed. Honestly, all the words in a post won't mean anything when you see the video I'll post in the days to come.

[Dan Hintz]

I gave you Amie's phone number, call her again and tell her you want to buy a Trotec laser.

There was some progress yesterday, and there will (hopefully) be more progress later on this week. I'll let you guys know what happens in the coming weeks...

[Keith Outten]

Great news Dan!

I agree with Steve about the speed of Trotec lasers, they are fast and deliver stunning quality at the same time. The engineering behind the machine impresses me most though because they are built so well with attention to detail that will make a difference over the long haul. The emphasis that Trotec puts on keeping the working parts clean clearly will pay off in big dividends over the life of the machine which should translate to an increase in reliability as well.

It seems that each owner has their favorite feature, collectively it adds up to a machine you can't help but enjoy operating. My first impression over the last few weeks has been more than favorable concerning the overall quality of the machine. I just made the trip from a nine year old machine that was basically an antique to a new machine that incorporates all the new technology in the business. Laser manufacturers have learned a lot about design and function over the years and I can't help being impressed by the difference in quality. The high-end manufacturers have leaped ahead of their competitors offering better drivers and software along with major improvements in the mechanical aspects of their machines.

Since we started this laser forum I have listened to owners comments about the machines they operate and I can tell you that the information collected in this forum contains details concerning every mainstream machine and just about every manufacturer. Although it can take some time to wade through the data here it is more then worth the investment simply because you can easily put together a list of which machine not to purchase and definitely which manufacturers to run away from. Trotec rates nothing but high scores here in every category and from people in almost every area of the industry.

When we were shopping for a new laser engraver for the sign shop at CNU five years ago I took some advise from someone who is a big name in the industry and I have regretted my decision to purchase a Xenetech XLT1325 since the day it was delivered. My opinion at this point in time is that I prefer to listen to those who spend their hard earned money on new machines that have owned them for a reasonable period of time. I place no value in anything a salesman has to say and I choose to ignore any and all data that I read in any publication. There are professional engravers here that are often a very quiet group who know the deal and have been around the horn so to speak. These people know what a reliable machine is and who builds them. This time I made the right decision and I purchased two new machines that I believe will benefit my sign business and the shop at CNU for a long time.
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