First Foray into Finials

[Chris Colman]

My first attempt at finials. It is walnut ebonized with india ink.

The HF is nothing special, just happened to be available.

I think the proportions are off, but what do I know.

I appreciate C&C from the experts at SMC.

Thanks.

[John Keeton]

Chris, if I might ask, what are the dimensions of the form, and the height of the finial? That might be helpful. I will reserve comment pending that info as it could have a bearing on how one views what you have done.

And, I hope you will accept comment from those of us that may not be an expert!

Thanks!

[Chris Colman]

Sorry, I forgot dimensions.

HF is about 6" tall and 3.75" wide. HF is black walnut.

Finial is 4" tall and 2.25" wide.

Overall height is 10".

[Jim Burr]

I really like the overall shape! It has some cool elements to it. I do think it could be thinner (couldn't we all!) in general. I'm still on the fence with the lid portion...I like upturns, but they can make things look clunky sometimes. I like the height ratio, but that could change with thinning it down too! Now to hear from someone who knows what they are talking about!

[John Keeton]

I should have also asked the size of the entry hole on the form as that could limit what you might do here, but let me go ahead and comment. I think your overall concept is very good. I like the proportions of the various elements of the finial as they relate to each other. The proportional issue is the manner in which the finial, as a whole, relates to the form. It is much too large and massive. If you can reduce the entire finial proportionately - every element, such that you preserve the relationship among the various elements, I think it would appear much better. At this point, however, the entry hole in the form comes into play. If the hole is fairly large, then obviously you need to have the lid portion of the finial sufficient to cover the hole.

Most of the forms I do are similar in size - though horizontal vs. vase form. Just as a reference, the diameter dimensions of a typical finial would be .10-12" in the neck of the cove coming off the lid, the replication of the form would be around 1/2" in diameter, and the spire (above the replication) would taper from around .09 to around .06". But, the finials I do and some of the other turners do, are sometimes an exercise in "how delicate can I go" and may not be necessary to the creation of an appealing form.

Chris, you did some good work here. The tool control, the curves, the proportions of the finial elements to the overall finial - all are very good.

The form of the vase is very good, too, BTW. Some will probably suggest a bit smaller base, with a tuck toward the bottom. And, generally speaking, the entry hole and base should not be the same size.

[Jamie Donaldson]

Chris- the only way to learn to make finer and finer finials is to turn a bunch! Eash practice piece will be better and finer, and don't expect each one to be a keeper. Hard maple, cherry, and several other hardwoods with fine closed grain make good practice wood, and the sanding and finishing will yield a supply of keepers in a variety of different designs for future matches to vessels. And the more you practice, the luckier you become!

[Scott Hackler]

Chris, somewhere (probably here) I was directed to a drawing showing a hollow form and finial with the ratios for the "perfect" form and finial. I have it stapled to the wall in my shop and glance at it regularly. It references the "golden mean" ration of 1/3 to 2/3 for the form and gives assistance on proper finial proportion. Im this drawing, it suggest the finial height to be exactly the width of the widest part of the finial. I use this method with a slight adjustment. Because of an obsession with thin and delicate, I add an additional 1/4" to most of my finials and believe that the thin finial can work with the extra height. The opposite would ring true, in my mind, for a thicker finial. I would likely suggest 1/4" shorter for a thick finial.

The problem with a lot of finials is not the design, per se, but the visual distraction or compliment to the form. You have great shapes, curves and the overall balance to your finial is nice. All pieces of the finial flow with the other pieces of your finial, but added to the HF....it is a bit overpowering to the form. Remember that a finial is just an additional decoration to the form, so for its size it should not visually overpower the main form...but at the same time add to the overall piece.

Jamie makes a very good point that finials tend to get thinner, refined and more delicate after you've turned a bunch of them and gain confidence in the techniques. Hard, fine grain woods make life easier but I have turned Walnut fairly thin as well. I prefer African blackwood, but it's kinda pricey.

Nice work on your first finial, for sure. My first one looked similar to my pinky finger with a ball in the middle! (same size too!)

[John Keeton]

Perhaps this is the file to which Scott makes reference.

Golden%20rule%20combinations[1].jpg

Understand, however, that this is just a guide, and the proportions can often be reversed with the finial being 2/3 the form - or even other combinations that are pleasing to the eye. A lot of factors determine those things - and, personal tastes will vary, as well.

[David E Keller]

I suppose I'm an oddball since I don't find the sample image in the diagram appealing at all.

Chris, you started with a nice form which makes things easier. I like the elevated lid portion, but it seems a bit too elevated for my tastes. That brings up a good point which is that finial preferences are as much a matter of taste as anything... I tend to favor more delicate finials for the reasons that Scott mentioned. I want the finial to add something to the overall piece rather than compete for attention. When I'm making finials, I'll hold a piece of finial stock(pen blank) behind the form and raise and lower the stock until I get a height that is pleasing... For me that's generally somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 the width of the piece for vase forms. Like Scott, I tend to favor taller rather than shorter finials, so when I'm in doubt, I go long. If you made the lid portion of the top out of walnut, I think you'd find the visual mass of the topper lessened. The details are crisp and proportionate to one another, but the whole thing could be thinner for my tastes. FWIW, it's a heck of a lot nicer than my first dozen finials(and several of my last dozen)!

[Brian Libby]

Here is Keith Tompkins "Anatomy of a finial"
anatomyfinials_Tompkins.jpg

[Steve Schlumpf]

Chris - you have the elements down and now it is just a matter of proportion. This is where you get to experiment and find what works for you! I took the liberty of playing with the original photo just to give you a quick idea of what it might look like with a thinner/shorter finial.

Finial temp mod.jpg
Have fun with it!

[James Hamilton]

Don't look too close at it, you could slip and lose an eye!