SS Owner: brake has never fired and no injuries
SS Owner: I've been injured
SS Owner: Brake fired accidentally
SS Owner: Brake fired and prevented an injury
Non SS Owner: I've been injured
Non SS Owner: no injuries
Just a shopvac. I ran it before this pic is all. My shop is unfortunately about ten cabinet and shelf projects away from any sort of order. You know that saying - a place for everythign and everyhting in its place - well I'm severely challenged in the place for everything part, and therefore ... lots of relative mess.
Have had the ICS Sawstop since about a year after they came out. Would have liked something smaller like they have now (mine takes up a good portion of a two car garage and even on the HTC mobile base it is a major pain to move around). I have had no accidents or accidental set offs of the system. Mine saw even had an accident as we were getting it off the trailer (unhitched) when a neighbor who was excited about seeing the saw (he lost a few fingers to a dado blade on a Delta about a year earlier) jumped on the trailer and walked towards the saw. Well you can imagine what happened...trailer popped a wheelie and the saw flipped over and landed on its top in the driveway. After righting it and being pissed over the couple of scratches on the cast iron top I got it assembled and everything was dead on accurate and has stayed that way. It is one tuff, well built piece of machinery.
As pointed out earlier, this poll will general some interesting numbers to look at, but statistically you cannot draw any meaningful conclusions between SS and non-SS as some have already tried to do. Someone voting could have injured themselves 4 times in the past 20 years on a conventional saw then a week ago got a SS and has not used it for any significant time. They would vote as a non-SS owner that has been injured and a SS owner not injured, which hides both the multiple injuries and length of SS ownership.
I'm not criticizing the choice of poll options, just cautioning against trying to read too much from the numbers.
I voted 'non-SS owner, no injuries', but I forgot that I was once injured by my saw when it was not running. I had crouched under a wing to pick up something and when I stood up the corner of the CI wing scraped my back. Nothing too serious (nice scratch), but it hurt like hell! My wife wondered later why I screamed the F-bomb at one point.
I came close to injury lately but a SS wouldn't have helped me on this one. Was doing tenons flat on the TS and when I brought the piece back to the miter gauge to flip it over I didn't move it out of the way of the dado set enough: it caught slightly. Thankfully I use a big push block when doing this to ensure the piece stays down over the blade, so that helped me control the piece. The piece really just sped up since I was already pushing down on it. My hands were actually way away from it (left side of piece; blade was on right side), but without the push block the piece might have jumped up and over the miter gauge and hit me.
I voted non-SS, no injury. But honestly, clicking that button made me feel like I should knock on wood afterwards.
The one oddity here--and I may be wrong about this--is that the SS doesn't prevent kickback, right? So for an apples-to-apples comparison, we really need to eliminate kickback-related injuries (the bruises; blade-related injuries from kickback seem fair game)? The reason I ask is because I saw a lot of people talking about kickback bruises.
Last edited by Eric DeSilva; 03-26-2012 at 11:20 AM. Reason: typo
Sawstop owner, no injuries of any kind. I had a cheap portable saw and had an injury from a kickback on that one. Of course, that saw didn't have a riving knife either.
After I got rid of the portable saw, I got a Craftsman saw and didn't have any injuries but was always concerned about whether I'd make a mistake and cut off a finger. That's why I bought the SawStop - for the peace of mind that I wouldn't cut off a finger or mangle my hand. And so far, I haven't.
Mike
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
Had a kick back on my previous (non-SS) saw, didn't have a riving knife. Have had an accidental brake fire on my SS but no injuries.
One thing I just posted in another thread that could have been added to this poll (or at least I am interested to know):
Most of those who have had accidental brake fire (me included) have had it because of a mistake.
I wonder what is the rate of people who have accidental brake fire on a SS vs. the rate of people who have a serious accident (finger cut) on a non-SS.
Both are caused mostly by a moment of not being careful enough or paying enough attention. In one you pay a much higher price than the other.
I tend to think the number of brake fire accidents is higher but I bet there aren't many who have had TWO or more accidental brake fires
(typically one is enough to make you extra cautious with every cut). On the other hand, I also bet that all people want to be in the first camp (accidental brake fire vs. finger cut!).
I have to say that the SS DOES have anti-kickback devices, the riving knife, and the pawls in the guard. It also has a motor load sensor that senses if the blade is getting pinched, and shuts the saw down before it tosses the wood back at you. DAMHIKT
Meaningless survey. So far injuries listed have been kickback related. SS doesn't prevent that any better than any rival cabinet saw with guards and splitter in place. Blade cut is the only injury anyone should list in order to be comparable survey.
I agree that the survey is meaningless in that all surveys are meaningless, but I don't think your reason is valid. The Saw Stop is sold as the cure for table saw accidents and bringing to light that there is a whole other category of accidents that it doesn't handle any better than other "modern" saws isn't a bad thing.
My goal isn't to compare technologies. If you wish to do that, start your own poll. I like mine precisely as is.
This isn't a SS debate thread. If it turns into that I will delete it myself or ask the mods to shut it down and delete it. There is no "goal" or motive other than curiosity about exactly and precisely the poll questions, and I specifically included kickbacks in the injury criteria.
Last edited by John Coloccia; 03-26-2012 at 1:36 PM.
To echo what Steve said above that its just a poll and any real conclusions can't be determined due to the amount of people answering the poll, you need more people. If every TS owner on the Creek answered then the numbers might show so decent comparable numbers.
My biggest issue is cost. If I told my wife I was spending 3200.00 on a saw to keep me from cutting off my fingers she would tell me to stop WWing and that would solve the problem. If I made money from my shop that supported the house it would be different, but no money coming in.
Don
This poll doesn't cover near misses. haha
Reduce your "near misses" to zero and you'll be on a path to zero injury.