staples, glue and particle board

[frank shic]

i assume the original "carpenters" are long gone?

[HANK METZ]

Respectful snip... Sometimes us hobbyists make too much of craftsmanship, i.e. try to make everything of heirloom quality, and it doesn't necessarily have to be that way all the times. The cabinets look good and are durable, which essentially serves the first two requirements of kitchen cabinets.

You've just stated the quintessential difference between an amateur and a professional woodworker. Good enough, satisfactory, sufficient, acceptable, suitable, reasonable, agreeable, adequate, all right- these words do not necessarily mean compromise in construction, just a point at which nothing further of substance will be gained by additional effort.

- Beachside Hank
The use of nails in fine furniture is to be abhorred- drywall screws are preferred.

[michael case]

Zahid,

I use pocket screws, but never particle board. With rare exception kitchen cabinets today employ pocket screw face frames and they hold up fine on cabinets affixed to walls where wracking is not a problem. Ethan Allen uses them on free standing furniture which is unforgivable considering the price point. I used pocket screwed face frames and pocket screw box construction on my own kitchen, but I never sell anything to my customers with pocket screwed face frames. So good enough is relative. Pocket screws are good enough for fixed cabinets in my house. And Ethan Allen thinks they are good enough for their customers, but they are not good enough for mine. If your doing fixed cabinets for yourself I'd say use pocket screw all round.

[Steve Meliza]

Fast, Good and Cheap, pick any two.

[Biff Johnson]

Zahid...don't take your drywall off, you will be sorely disappointed!!!

I used to work on motorhomes and anything that wasn't visible to the naked eye was half-a**. I understand production line, cost savings, etc, etc but couldn't the worker building the item at least hold his nailer in a straight line or wipe off the glue spillage?

[Michael Moscicki]

Zahid...don't take your drywall off, you will be sorely disappointed!!!

I used to work on motorhomes and anything that wasn't visible to the naked eye was half-a**. I understand production line, cost savings, etc, etc but couldn't the worker building the item at least hold his nailer in a straight line or wipe off the glue spillage?

He/she doesn't have enough time on the conveyor belt. Plus at mere pennies for his work, why would he/she care about the alignment of a staple. You get what you pay for.

[Matt Meiser]

I used to work on motorhomes and anything that wasn't visible to the naked eye was half-a**.

You must have worked on the really expensive ones if the stuff that showed wasn't!

[Todd Burch]

I make nice stuff and use quality (relative term) materials.

I did a built-in back in early 2002 for a neighbor - my first commission when I went pro. Birch ply, birch face frames and base, maple trim.

Their house flooded a few years back - plastic toilet bowl supply line fractured. They were on vacation. The only thing that survived downstairs - the ONLY thing, was my built-in. They didn't even so much as have to remove the plinth, which was under water. It dried out - it was fine.

I build to handle scenarios like that. Nothing disposable. But I'm not making 10,000 units, so I don't do things like use butt joints on drawers, cardboard drawer bottoms and hot melt glue and plastic fasteners to keep costs down.

And, that's my litmus test when shopping for furniture. If I see hardware I can buy at HD, or plastic, or hot melt glue or cardboard on furniture - I keep moving.

I have been snooty at times, and eaten my humble pie. When I got married, we bought our dining room set. Butcher block maple table with white base, and bow back chairs with maple seat bottoms and painted posts and rungs. That was 1988.

When we were shopping for new chairs @ Ethan Allen, I looked over the black windsors, and they had screws holding the tenonned legs into their mortises in the seat bottoms. Nicely done, but screws nonetheless. I turned my nose up at these ~$150/each chairs, knowing that to buy a handmade windsor, it could run upwards of $700/each.

So, we went without chairs for a few years. We went back - same deal. Then, I looked at our original maple chairs, that have served us flawlessly for 20+ years. They too have the same screws holding the tenonned legs into the mortised seat bottoms.

We went that afternoon and bought the EA chairs. They are working great.

[Biff Johnson]

That's true but price wasn't always a predictor of good craftmanship. Usually better materials, though!

You must have worked on the really expensive ones if the stuff that showed wasn't!

[Don Jarvie]

Home Depot can order the exact stain used by Kraftmaid, its made by Mohawk. I bought the toffee stain for a built in I made to match our kitchen cabs and it was right on the money.

[Bruce Wrenn]

i assume the original "carpenters" are long gone?

Gone as in out of business.

[Biff Johnson]

You've just stated the quintessential difference between an amateur and a professional woodworker. Good enough, satisfactory, sufficient, acceptable, suitable, reasonable, agreeable, adequate, all right- these words do not necessarily mean compromise in construction, just a point at which nothing further of substance will be gained by additional effort.

- Beachside Hank
The use of nails in fine furniture is to be abhorred- drywall screws are preferred.

I respectfully disagree. The difference between amateur and professional is the matter of payment.
See Websters definition: a: participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs <a professional golfer> b: having a particular profession as a permanent career <a professional soldier> c: engaged in by persons receiving financial return <professional football>

[HANK METZ]

I respectfully disagree. The difference between amateur and professional is the matter of payment.
See Websters definition: a: participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs <a professional golfer> b: having a particular profession as a permanent career <a professional soldier> c: engaged in by persons receiving financial return <professional football>

Understandable, and well put Biff, and also an acceptable P.O.V. but for the context used: quin·tes·sen·tial -adjective, ”of or pertaining to the most perfect embodiment of something”.


Zahid’s rumination went thus: …Sometimes us hobbyists make too much of craftsmanship, i.e. try to make everything of heirloom quality, and it doesn't necessarily have to be that way all the times. The cabinets look good and are durable, which essentially serves the first two requirements of kitchen cabinets.

My response was meant to point out that time being money, the pro would hit the wall at some point and move on to other, more productive things instead of investing his resources in a path of diminishing returns, i.e. overbuilding. At least that was my rationale when I was active in the trades, but being retired now, I can take the time to overdo simply for it’s own sake if it pleases me to do so. I have to wonder though, and it’s simply an opinion of mine, if many of the projects our fellow woodworkers construct as heirlooms actually make it beyond one generation- I suspect the vast majority in fact, do not.


- Beachside Hank
Do not use remaining fingers as push sticks.

[Biff Johnson]

Point taken! I personally try to fumble along somewhere in the middle. All my jobs start out as perfection, sometimes at the end of the job, not so much! I blame it on my scratched up safety glasses.

[frank shic]

Understandable, and well put Biff, and also an acceptable P.O.V. but for the context used: quin·tes·sen·tial -adjective, ”of or pertaining to the most perfect embodiment of something”.


Zahid’s rumination went thus: …Sometimes us hobbyists make too much of craftsmanship, i.e. try to make everything of heirloom quality, and it doesn't necessarily have to be that way all the times. The cabinets look good and are durable, which essentially serves the first two requirements of kitchen cabinets.

My response was meant to point out that time being money, the pro would hit the wall at some point and move on to other, more productive things instead of investing his resources in a path of diminishing returns, i.e. overbuilding. At least that was my rationale when I was active in the trades, but being retired now, I can take the time to overdo simply for it’s own sake if it pleases me to do so. I have to wonder though, and it’s simply an opinion of mine, if many of the projects our fellow woodworkers construct as heirlooms actually make it beyond one generation- I suspect the vast majority in fact, do not.


- Beachside Hank
Do not use remaining fingers as push sticks.

man, i sure hope not. i cringe when i look at some of the earlier pieces i made!