Euro Style Cabinets? (Rant)

[Jack Pinkham]

small drawers.jpg

This small island cabinet was specified to have double 8.5" top drawers, then a 10" single, and the bottom was to be a single 12". The cabinets were drawn with full drawer fronts with very small reveal, perhaps 1/8". This is what our contractor installed: two double top drawers 2" deep, and the two bottom drawers are 7-3/4" deep. I realize that the Blumation slides require that drawers be a minimum of 25/32" shorter than the opening and that the specified drawer sizes were nominal and that actual drawers would be shallower, but this much? Are stretchers this wide standard for European cabinets? I calculate that we got about 40% less storage volume than we specified.

[David Wong]

Is this an exceptionally wide cabinet? Stretchers are not usually necessary for frameless cabinets. I have 36" wide frameless cabinets in my kitchen with full extension Blum Tandem slides. Three layers of drawers give me approximately 14.5", 8.5", and 4" depth drawers. A 3mm reveal between drawer faces.

[Jack Pinkham]

Is this an exceptionally wide cabinet? Stretchers are not usually necessary for frameless cabinets. I have 36" wide frameless cabinets in my kitchen with full extension Blum Tandem slides. Three layers of drawers give me approximately 14.5", 8.5", and 4" depth drawers. A 3mm reveal between drawer faces.

Nope, it's 32" wide.

[William C Rogers]

This is why I am building all of my own cabinets for my new house. I can make it just the way I want it.

[Bill Neely]

I agree with the other posters. Those stretchers are ridiculous, I wouldn't even use any in that application.

[Phil Thien]

I agree with the other posters. Those stretchers are ridiculous, I wouldn't even use any in that application.

If you go with a double drawer on top, you need some sort of a stretcher underneath. So for balance, you really need the other stretcher, too. Plus, the stretchers make the cabinet much stronger, especially if there is going to be heavy weight (like a stone top) resting on this thing.

[Dave Zellers]

Those stretchers could be turned 90º and pick up about 4" of drawer depth.

[Ole Anderson]

They overdid the stretchers IMO. I am sketching up some drawers which will use the Blumotion tandem slides. The china closet, 36" wide, will have a face frame, the other cabs will be frameless with openings up to 28.5". Are you saying that a stretcher is not required for those Blum slides? They look like they rest on a stretcher for proper support, with screws to the cab sides. If I do put in stretchers, how narrow can I get away with on a 36" opening? Pocket screw construction on the face frame.

[Jack Pinkham]

Those stretchers could be turned 90º and pick up about 4" of drawer depth.

My wife can hardly get a roll of wax paper or a box of Ziploc bags in the 2" deep drawers.


The reasons that he might have put the wide side of the stretcher vertical could be:
1. It reduces the cost of the drawers. He complained that he didn't realize how many drawers were required.
2. Despite claiming to have taught cabinetmaking to the area's premier remodeling company, he didn't know how to make Euro cabinets.

Based on his granite tile counter top installation, which we had to rip out, it seems that he thinks that his way of doing things trumps standard trade practices such as following the plans and specs or meeting accepted workmanship standards. Here is a photo of the granite tile counter top which he claims "meets ANSI standards" and which he only ripped out to make us happy:
countertop 1.jpg

He claimed that once this was all grouted the uneven grout joints wouldn't be noticeable and that there would be lots of things on the counter that would hide the joints.

[Dave Zellers]

He complained that he didn't realize how many drawers were required.

So he can't count? Didn't he bid the job from plans?

[Jack Pinkham]

So he can't count? Didn't he bid the job from plans?

\

Yes, I prepared the kitchen plan, elevations, and a cabinet schedule using Chief Architect.

[Joe Angrisani]

This small island cabinet was specified to have double 8.5" top drawers, then a 10" single, and the bottom was to be a single 12". The cabinets were drawn with full drawer fronts with very small reveal, perhaps 1/8". This is what our contractor installed: two double top drawers 2" deep, and the two bottom drawers are 7-3/4" deep. I realize that the Blumation slides require that drawers be a minimum of 25/32" shorter than the opening and that the specified drawer sizes were nominal and that actual drawers would be shallower, but this much? Are stretchers this wide standard for European cabinets? I calculate that we got about 40% less storage volume than we specified.

I'm missing something here, Jack. The original drawers add up to 30.5", which is about right for an average countertop, but nothing left for space between the drawers (however they're made). Were those dimensions the size of the drawer fronts? As made now, they add up to 17.5". Those stretchers can't be 4.33" (the missing 13"). Going by the size of the Blumotion slides, I'm guessing the stretchers are 2-1/2". Where's the other 6+ inches? Those three stretchers can't be eating the 40% storage volume you say you've lost.

Can you give us some actual dimensions? How far is it from the bottom of the countertop to the floor? Is this a low counter? 32" is pretty wide for one carcase. How far from bottom of countertop to top of toe kick? How wide are the stretchers (front face, top-to-bottom)? How big is the top opening? How big are the bottom openings?

Pending those numbers, it kinda looks like each stretcher is about an inch wider than it needs to be. But that means you should have 7.5", 9" and 11" drawers. Something's off. It must be a much-lower-than-average counter (and a contractor that can't run a tape measure).

[Jeff Duncan]

The stretchers, which are not necessary for Euro cabinets, are too wide. Stretchers in Euro cabinets are 3/4" thick and the width, roughly 4", goes into the cabinet. This should all be spec'd out in the construction details whoever provided them. Also I'm sure you had a reason, but doing double drawers on the top wastes a LOT of space. A better solution may have been to split a drawer box in half? Of course you may have a good reason, just stating that there's a lot of space gone just from that decision alone.

As far as the drawer height that's pretty common. Again unless something different is spec'd out in the construction drawings it's up to the builder to choose the height. Usually in these types of drawers people are putting pots and pans which don't generally need the sides to be full hight. If you needed/wanted the drawers to go full height you should have had it spelled out somewhere along the way.

Anyway not that we need to keep harping on this guy, but he's a 'jack of all trades' master of none, who thinks he knows a lot but really doesn't. It's become clear in these posts that he's not competent to be doing half the work he's doing and that's not going to change. The unfortunate thing is that until you finally get rid of him these problems are just going to continue. I hate to sound so negative but I've followed behind so many of these kinds of guys it's like a bad movie....you basically know what's going to happen before it does

good luck,
JeffD

[mreza Salav]

wow, not to pile on your frustration but if that's the tiling job he has done and thinks is acceptable I'd ask him to leave if I had the option. There is no way I'd agree to such kind of "standard"...

[Jack Pinkham]

The stretchers, which are not necessary for Euro cabinets, are too wide. Stretchers in Euro cabinets are 3/4" thick and the width, roughly 4", goes into the cabinet. This should all be spec'd out in the construction details whoever provided them. Also I'm sure you had a reason, but doing double drawers on the top wastes a LOT of space. A better solution may have been to split a drawer box in half? Of course you may have a good reason, just stating that there's a lot of space gone just from that decision alone.

As far as the drawer height that's pretty common. Again unless something different is spec'd out in the construction drawings it's up to the builder to choose the height. Usually in these types of drawers people are putting pots and pans which don't generally need the sides to be full hight. If you needed/wanted the drawers to go full height you should have had it spelled out somewhere along the way.

Anyway not that we need to keep harping on this guy, but he's a 'jack of all trades' master of none, who thinks he knows a lot but really doesn't. It's become clear in these posts that he's not competent to be doing half the work he's doing and that's not going to change. The unfortunate thing is that until you finally get rid of him these problems are just going to continue. I hate to sound so negative but I've followed behind so many of these kinds of guys it's like a bad movie....you basically know what's going to happen before it does

good luck,
JeffD

Good point about double drawers being less efficient.

He was given a cabinet schedule which had all the drawer heights listed. We could live with drawers without full height sides as long as the drawers would accept items close to the specified drawer height. For example, we have no problem with a 12" nominal height drawer with drawer sides which are only 5 or 6 inches high as long as a 10" deep pot fits in it. What we can't accept are drawers that can't hold items because the stretchers take up so much space. For example,being only able to store a 7-3/4" high pot in a drawer which was to be a nominal 12" drawer.