The Future of the Laser Engraving Industry

[Steve Clarkson]

What about 5 years from now......don't you think those UV ink manufacturers are working diligently to come up with new and better inks that can stick to any substrate and outlast a nuclear winter? Yes, the link to the printer I showed in my original post is $30,000......but like lasers ($30,000 five years ago to $5,000 today) the UV printer prices will drop.

[Scott Shepherd]

But would a customer prefer to buy an $8 two color engraved nametag or a $4 UV printed nametag with a four color logo?

UV Inks can and will get better.....printing a four color logo on stainless steel that is weather resistent will be able to be made cheaper and faster than using Cermark on stainless steel.

You can race to the bottom of the industry if you want, and that's where some products and customers live, which is fine. However, I think your question makes more sense to be along these lines :

But would a customer prefer to buy an $8 two color engraved nametag or a $4 UV printed nametag with a four color logo, or a custom shaped name tag that is unique to them and their company branding?

For $4, you get a rectangle and you look like everyone else on the planet wearing a name tag. It's my job to help you stand out, as well as care as much about your company image as you do yourself. When you do that, you reap rewards. When you become the dollar store for name tags, you'll attract the customers that want to pay $1 and don't care about their image.

I think this market is at it's beginning, not it's end. 3D printers have no place in production at this point. No one's making 10,000 items on a 3D printer. They use them to proof the concept and then have it made using more economical methods. UV printers still have one flaw. They use ink. Ink has a lifespan outdoors. You'll never print products for any industry that requires items last. Imagine if the ink tag had full sun exposure. It wouldn't be but about 3 years in and the "DANGER- LIFE THREATENING DEVICE" tag won't be able to be read and someone could get seriously injured. For that reason, tags are engraved.

[Kevin Braat]

As the owner of a 3d printer, 80W laser and a Shopbot CNC machine, I can tell you that all three have their uses.

A 3d printer is slow and most are a bit finicky with settings. They can make parts the others can never attempt to make, but even a small part requires 20 minutes or more to print. Large parts take hours. Parts need to be designed with removable support material or 3d printing orientation in mind.
PRO - unlimited design shapes
CON - slow, limited material options, takes some skill to design the parts and print direction

The laser is great for acrylic sheets, metal marking and testing scale models. Mine cannot handle the thicker materials or cut into some plastics without harmful gasses.
PRO - precision, large number of materials, reasonably fast, easy to use
CON - limited to mainly flat or round objects with a rotary, possible harmful gasses

The Shopbot is great for sheets of material and large 3d objects. I could cut acrylic with it, but not with the precision of the laser. Also, trying to engrave a plate takes more time on this machine than just metal marking on the laser with Cermark. The warm up time is much greater, as is the dust and noise.
PRO - Great for large projects and sheets, still good for small parts with advanced planning, cuts most materials, intermediate skills required for some file setups
CON - Noisy, some dust and cleanup after cutting, parts may require tab removal or additional finish

Each machine depends on what you are doing. If you want acrylic, I go straight to the laser. Polycarbonate PC case goes to the Shopbot and small plastic prototype parts come from the 3d printer. Use each to it's advantages. I find myself using one machine to modify the others more and more.

[Mike Null]

Kevin

Welcome to Sawmill Creek.

I look at some of the printing methods and products as ways to expand my business. I don't look at them as transferring business; though that can sometimes be the case if I feel it is a better option. I don't see 3d printing as having anything to do with my engraving business. UV printers offer some nice options but at the moment they are too expensive and really don't fit my business plan. I don't see one in my future.

Over the years I've become much more focused and have moved away from all retail activity including t-shirts even though they are often commercial customers. I have raised my minimum charge to $25 and am considering raising it higher. I just don't want to be bothered with Tom, who's making a plaque for his Eagle Scout or Mary, who just found a great bargain at the Dollar Store and would like to get it engraved for $5 or $6.

And, again, I don't see laser engraving diminishing one iota.

[Joe Hillmann]

Another thing about my worry of home lasers becoming as common as home printers. Every computer you buy comes with some type of typing program and some type of paint program. With that and a printer you can do things that in the past would have required going to a print shop.

But with a laser you need some type of vector program and the knowledge to use it. Making it less likely for lasers to become as common as printers.

Also paper is cheap. One penny can get you ten sheets. If you screw something up printing, no big deal it didn't even cost a cent. Things we put in the laser (even the cheapest ones) tend to be much much more expensive. So if it doesn't turn out perfect the first time you are out at least a few buck but probably a lot more.

Another thing about any home lasers in the future, they will be compact which means they can't do large items. Usually when I am doing sheet goods I use every inch of the laser bed and wished I had a bit more to work with. So the home lasers wont be able to do large parts without a lot of creative splicing. Which requires knowledge of corelDraw and probably practice which costs material.

With all that said the only thing I could think of that may be able to be compleatly replaced with small desktop lasers would be for making tags. Even then the person who owns the laser would have to source the material and have a way to cut it down to size so it fits in the laser.

[Martin Boekers]

What about 5 years from now......don't you think those UV ink manufacturers are working diligently to come up with new and better inks that can stick to any substrate and outlast a nuclear winter? Yes, the link to the printer I showed in my original post is $30,000......but like lasers ($30,000 five years ago to $5,000 today) the UV printer prices will drop.

The Epilog that I paid $35,000 actually 5 years ago still sells for close to the same price, Yes you can buy a laser for $5,000 but it's not the same as Epilog, Uls or Trotec.

I don't know anyone yet with a $30,000 UV so I can say what those limitations might be. There will be price fluctuations as technology moves forward, then again it takes
a skilled operator to realize the potential.

[George M. Perzel]

And for another opinion..........
Steve, with all due respect I think that you are letting advances in technology constrain your imagination rather than expand it.
After ten years of owning a laser I am still amazed at the number of new uses I see for the technology every week. I am not in the awards or trophy business and do few signs or nameplates-but plenty of business exists in those areas which will continue to grow as our society becomes more and more dependent on people who provide specialized services. We have created a generation of great kids who can text and tweet while simultaneously brushing their teeth and worrying about global warming but have no idea of how to change a tire (text AAA for help) or replace a wall switch (electrician is only $65 an hour). The service industry will continue to be huge and expanding.
You asked "Is there one product or process that the laser makes/does that will not be replaced within the next 5-10 years? I can't really think of one."
1.Cutting a name out of maple and inlaying it into a piece of walnut-what technology does it or will do it better/quicker/cheaper ?
2. Marquetry veneer designs?
3. Cut thin plexi quickly?
4. Cut model parts-wood/plastic/foam?
5. Engrave complex design in wood?
6. Burn names on sugar cookies or bagels-got a better way to do it?

I'm sure others can add to the list- new technologies will continue to add moire opportunities for laser use, not eliminate it.
If you are not convinced will give you $1000 for your system now-before it becomes obsolete!!
Best Regards,
George
Laserarts

[Khalid Nazim]

Steve,

Thanks for starting this thread. We have great dialog going on here.

I am very optimistic about the laser cutter/engraver being a very relevant tool in the future. Before I got my laser, I could not have even imagined the things that I am making with it now and selling them. And I feel that I have not even scratched the surface yet. I am only limited by my imagination and the ability to convert these ideas into business.

Regards
Khalid

[Guy Hilliard]

Boy am I screwed. I just dropped a bundle on a new Speedy 400. :P

UV printers, CNC routers, etcetera are not a competing technology to laser cutters / engravers but rather they are complementary technology.

UV print a design on acrylic and then engrave additional detail and profile cut with a laser. Waterjet, routing, or any other cutting technology will require post polishing the edge. Cut a memorial / dedication / founders plaque on a CNC router and then cut appliques and engrave detail with a laser. How are you going to cut fine detail in paper? Die cutting or an ultrasonic knife are very useful for cutting relatively large pieces of cardboard, coroplast, and Sintra but cutting / engraving fine detail in tissue, paper, acrylic, and textiles (especially silk and synthetics), fuhgeddaboudit! Engraving a photo on acrylic, painted glass, or marble, nothing else comes close to a laser's detail and finish. Yes you can print a picture directly on acrylic and glass (as they have been able to do on glass since 1850) but a laser enables a level of artistic versatility that is not available in a print / photographic process, it changes the medium. Cut rubber stamps with a router and expect any level of quality / detail - good luck. Want to engrave 2pt text on a product you better have a laser, rotary and diamond drag just isn't going to cut it. Mold masters for medallions are easier and cheaper to make using 3D laser engraved acetyl then any machining process, and 3D printing is not even close to reproducing the surface finish achieved with a laser (and quite a few 3D printers use lasers in their process. There's no reason our lasers cannot be modified to be a fused deposition 3D printer with a thermoplastic medium - just remember to turn the air assist off). New processes and applications for laser processing are being discovered on a regular basis (see laser origami).

I think I'm OK for the next 20 years or so.

[Jesse Anderson]

When i got my Epilog. They Released the newer Fusion models. Of course the industry will change..

I just hope its not like the Television. Or Hammer. Every one has one in the shop and uses it every day.

[Jiten Patel]

Great post! Very interesting to here peoples views on this. I can see where you are coming from Steve, tech becomes cheaper, more accessible to the masses....but does this make the masses a master of their craft. Just because you can get Photoshop elements bundled with a computer doesn't make the end user a graphic designer/artist. It is us, the user who makes the machine what it is...the laser is simply a tool.

Echoing what everyone has said, we make these machines what they are with our businesses sense and design skill. Speaking on what I do, I would love to see any machine that can produce what we do. When we get our new machine, the possibilities are endless. We have thousands of ideas that only a laser can do. The machine anyone can buy, the ideas takes someone with a creative brain to coin and implement.

We exhibit at some of the biggest shows in the UK with our laser-cut wares and we get the odd person saying "we can do that" under their breathe. My retort is, good luck with that, and when you do finally get the skill to do so, let me know and I would love to see what you come up with.

With these new machines becoming cheaper, all that means is we will be able to add to our arsenal and improve our business models rather than replacing an idea that works. Innovation rather than reinvention!

[Rodne Gold]

I don't often post but read the forum most everyday. A little background. I bought my first laser in February 1982, an 80 watt engraver from Laser Machining in Somerset, WI. Since then I have owned 3 different Epilogs, nothing ever less than 100 watts and currently a 120 watt with a 24x36 table. When I started 30 years ago all we could laser was wood plaques, acrylic, stone and glass. I have watched the supplier side of the industry create literally thousands of new laserable products. I never looked at the laser as "what" I was selling but rather as one of the methods I used in creating products for my customers. I have engraved and sold at wholesale to the awards industry, supplier to ad specialty companies and at retail. I think as long as we continue to develop creative products and ideas we don't have to worry about the laser becoming obsolete. During those years I have owned other engravers, cnc routers, sublimation, screen printing, Magic Touch and jsut about everything in between. It still comes down to I have to design a product that best serves my customers needs. They frankly don't care how it is produced, what equipment is used, etc. as long as it makes them look good to the recipient. I will be 65 next month and I am more excited about the laser industry today than anytime in the past 30 years, except for the day my first system arrived. The only way lasers will become obsolete in our lifetimes is we stop thinking and designing creative solutions for our customers. Everyday I find another idea on the forum that allows me to create something I have never made before and that leads me to completely new possibilities for my customers.

Thats exactly the philosophy I have , the laser is merely a tool. For Eg Lathes have been around for 100's of years..they still valid today as then , its what they can produce that counts..

[Keith Outten]

I can't think of any tool or machine that the laser engraver has caused to become extinct. Consequently I can't imagine any tool or machine in the future will make a laser engraver become extinct. Even the newer lasers with new technology have little impact on the existing laser engravers.

I think it all about innovation, creativity and last but not least MARKETING in the right proportions. I've seen a lot of very creative people go out of business because they spent very little of their time being innovative and failed to market their products.
.

[Tim Bateson]

I'm not worried about cheaper lasers that more people are buying. I've seen them come & go in my area. Each time I may loose a customer or two, but when they fold (and most have), I end up with a lot of their cultivated clients. I would guess half my clients have come from start-ups that failed.

[Mark Ross]

I can't tell you all what we do (don't want competition) but we started with one EPilog 36EXT, last year we bought a second and most likely a third is not too far behind. We cut. The only time we engrave is government jobs where someone who works here wants something done. 8-10 hours a day 6 days a week.

We joke that the laser prints money...