US Military Trademarks and Copyrights

[Martin Boekers]

With due respect Jesse, things are changing quickly on this. Some sites that were available for art work are already gone. The Marines for ex, have a whole process already in affect just for the ETSY site. They have had ETSY remove any products using their symbols logos etc. I have had contact with the Air Force on this and as I understand it. (disclaimer, my understanding may not be as intended. ) There are different levels, shops like mine and other awards shops need a limited use license. This allows us to do one offs, custom pieces etc. It does get more involved if you want to do long run stand alone products such as hats, Shirts etc. Mike, use of Seals are available, just extra steps on the approval process. You will notice though many companies have things that are very close to resembling Seals. Classic Medallics has a nice selection of disc Seals. One thing I'm not sure of is how they qualify dollar amount of business. If the say under $5k does that mean $5k of business using say Marine Corps Art or $5k in all business? The military is like any other business, they want to control their branding.

[Dave Sheldrake]

I was quite surprised to see the Epilog US site using the US Presidential Seal as a demo piece.

http://www.epiloglaser.com/photo_gallery.htm

When this from Cornell seems to makes the use of the Presidential seal quite clear.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/713

Tom over at LaserBuzz also distributes numerous Military Logos for use on lasers, I didn't see any mention of a license requirement to use them though.

It doesn't seem to be something that is routinely enforced, that said, even though I love having holidays the idea of Federal Prison isn't a destination that really appeals to me.

cheers

Dave

[Mike Null]

I think Tom may have run into an issue recently. He can comment more on that.

We are a country which just spent $100 million on a headquarters building in Afghanistan that the commanding general repeatedly said wasn't necessary. Does it make sense that the same government is going to fuss over making a plaque for a veteran?

[Martin Boekers]

I realize that folks have been doing things for many years and never had an issues, as I said those times are changing. As Award Shops we will have a different set of agreements in place, as our products are one ups and typically ordered through a service member. I think this is more geared to higher volume vendors. Epilog has used various things as samples through the years from Disney to Harley Davidson. I'm sure if they ever get a letter they will quit doing that. Now the Presidential Seal is a whole different story...... :0

One other aspect is Gov does not want products to imply endorsement.... that always has been a given....

[Dave Sheldrake]

I tend to be the same Martin,

I have agreements in place for any intellectual property or trademarks I use, surprisingly one such Rights holder after being emailed charged me 1 US Dollar for a commercial rights license simply because I asked and didn't take. Others allow me to use a "likeness" but not their name and so on.
Sometimes just asking yields great results

cheers

Dave

[Mark E Wilson]

I have never had a problem. I think they are more after the guys printing tons of stickers, shirts, etc making money and not including them with royalties. I think if you are making something for an individual service member you are fine.

Some handy sites: http://www.defense.gov/multimedia/web_graphics/
http://www.af.mil/News/Art.aspx
http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Un...ormed.aspx#top

Mark

[Martin Boekers]

I have never had a problem. I think they are more after the guys printing tons of stickers, shirts, etc making money and not including them with royalties. I think if you are making something for an individual service member you are fine.

Some handy sites: http://www.defense.gov/multimedia/web_graphics/
http://www.af.mil/News/Art.aspx
http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Un...ormed.aspx#top

Mark

The AF Art site has been modified, I have used it for years, it was easy to navigate. It had EPS files as well as jpgs. Now it is more difficult and I'm not sure if it has all the
content the previous site did.They are moving forward with this. It will be different than in the past. Some here have had their ESTY shops shut down until they got
approval. It's so easy to find images and where they come from today, so I imagine in the near future even small business web pages will be notified.

I'm not sure there is requirements for royalty payments, more a one time/annual fee for certain levels. Talking with the AF there is a limited license for award and gift shops.
I don't believe this costs anything. I may be wrong on that as this is new territory. I do believe that it is more in "control" of the brand.


Nice work on the models! I am familiar with the C-130 as being here at Scott AFB. I have thought about creating some aircraft models that fly out of here, but time always gets in the way.

[Scott Woodson]

Martin,

I was recently approached (OK, told to stop) selling USMC marked items until I obtained a hobbyist license. I also talked to a few others about this topic and it seems as though the services are getting pinched in the budgeting process and are turning to this as a source of revenue. I was told for the most part proceeds from the licensing going towards their Morale Welfare & Recreation funds. I am now also filling out paperwork and submitting samples of artwork, I guess the times are changing. I have had several people that have come to me last minute and asked for items for retirements and I'm hesitant to do the production without obtaining permission (read paying for additional licenses). There used to be a rule that unit commanders could authorized the use of unit logos and service members can reproduce certain aspects of service ensignia to "personal" use. I do wonder if an item is ordered by a military member for personal use, does this constitute permission?

[Dave Sheldrake]

I do wonder if an item is ordered by a military member for personal use, does this constitute permission?

Probably a question for .gov but looking at it another way, if a camera man from LucasFilm asks me to make Star Wars items the chances are the boss there isn't going to like it even though said Cam guy may have permission himself. If the serviceman / lady had a laser or printer I would assume that is the intention behind "personal use". If the service person was an employee that would probably be ok. (heh I'm no lawyer of course)

Asking often gets what you want in the end and doesn't always cost anything

cheers

Dave

[Mike Null]

The government did not change the rules to generate income. They are exercising more control to prevent commercial marketers (volume sellers and speculative sellers) from misusing any of the marks.

If a vet comes to you for a plaque you can make it without any approvals. The same applies to a family member or friend who wants to present it as a gift.

For those who choose to get the approvals, go ahead, it's not such a big deal, but for onesies it's overkill.

[Tom Buzz Bernard]

The government did not change the rules to generate income. They are exercising more control to prevent commercial marketers (volume sellers and speculative sellers) from misusing any of the marks.

If a vet comes to you for a plaque you can make it without any approvals. The same applies to a family member or friend who wants to present it as a gift.

For those who choose to get the approvals, go ahead, it's not such a big deal, but for onesies it's overkill.

You are correct Mike...here is an excerpt from the Marine Corps License FAQ page

Can I create and sell products directly to Marine Corps members using the Marine Corps name and Eagle Globe and Anchor without a license agreement?

The commercial sale of Marine Corps products requires licensing. However; if you are a business owner, let's say you are a custom t-shirt manufacturer and a service member approaches you about making 25 custom t-shirts for their unit. In this case you may create and sell to them the custom product they are requesting. However; if you are not licensed you may not advertise that you can create Marine Corps branded products. Only official USMC Licensees may advertise their Marine Corps branded products.

[Mike Null]

Scott

Would you be so good as to identify the individual who told you to stop selling Marine Corps marked items? I would question their authority.

[Chuck Stone]

Martin,

I was recently approached (OK, told to stop) selling USMC marked items until I obtained a hobbyist license. I also talked to a few others about this topic and it seems as though the services are getting pinched in the budgeting process and are turning to this as a source of revenue.

I don't believe revenue is the issue. And it is important to understand the difference between
copyright and trademark. Copyright is automatic. And many of the government's copyrights are
owned by the public. (their employer) Some military logos are privately copyrighted and not official.

But trademarks are different. Those MUST be defended against misuse, or they risk
losing the trademark. Using someone's trademark implies that they endorse your product
and that you have their permission and support in the endeavor. The trademark is their
brand. They need to be able to control how their brand is seen and how their mark is used.
That is why not all cream filled cakes are called Twinkies and not all sneakers are called Nike.

Most military marks (those not trademarked) are OK to use when military member hires
you to do the work. There's a difference between doing work for hire and you going out
and promoting your product as being endorsed by the US Marine Corps. In the case of
work for hire, the product is never yours. You only the raw materials and tools you are
using them to make a product for someone who does have the authority to use the mark.

[Scott Woodson]

Scott

Would you be so good as to identify the individual who told you to stop selling Marine Corps marked items? I would question their authority.

Mike,

The individual worked in the USMC trademark and licensing office. The hobbyist license cost $25.00 but is predicated on the income you derive from the products. While speaking with the trademark office I was informed that they currently allow you to do work for individual members of the service, but not to advertise as Tom B pointed out in another post. I personally believe that eventually the services will start to look at that avenue as well as a way to generate revenue.

Scott

[Mike Null]

Scott

thank you.

As for me, I would question his authority to tell you to stop.