First experience with Veritas MKII honing guide

[glenn bradley]

You shouldn't really be putting a lot of pressure on the guide while sharpening. Try and think of it is exactly that... Just a guide.

Bob speaks true. It took me awhile to realize I didn't need a death-grip on the thing. Like golf, snooker or the shooting range, practice leads to a controlled yet relaxed grip. I have had one for a number of years. I use it in conjunction with stones, scary sharp plates and my Worksharp as well. I think you will come to enjoy it. As to how long abrasive film lasts, we're not talking about regular old sandpaper here. The 3M abrasive film lasts quite awhile. I tried another (automotive maybe) product but, the backing was so thick (not really thick at all) that the "padding" it supplied fouled the sharpening path. The hard back micro-abrasive films don't give me any trouble but, that's just been my experience. YMMV.

[Winton Applegate]

Fun looking old chisel !
I had no idea ACE Hardware had been around so long.
Thanks for the education.

As far as chisels go you may find hand sharpening is a good way to go. Chisels aren't as critical as plane blades.
You may or may not know I am "Mr. Sharpening Jig Man" I love my Mk II so that may seem like a 180 to some but chisels have such an imperfect tapered surface that yes often they slip around in the jig.

There is (are) other jigs that work better on chisels because the jig grips along the sides of the chisel.

I can' hardly wait until you get the jig on some plane blades. You are going to be impressed I think.

Still worth struggling to learn hand sharpening in every application so you really understand the process but then , in my view, you can relax and use the jig.

The quality of the edge geometry and is always better with the jig other wise machinists would hand sharpen their milling cutters etc. rather than send them out to a specialist.

That is contrary to what many will tell you but then contrary . . . is how I seem to role (roll).

[Kees Heiden]

The quality of the edge geometry and is always better with the jig other wise machinists would hand sharpen their milling cutters etc. rather than send them out to a specialist.

That's not a very strong argument. Milling cutters are made from carbide which is hard to sharpen. There are more edges on the same cutter, so their geometry must be very consistent to have them all do the same amount of work. Powertool bits don't need to be shaperned every odd hour, so it is at least viable to source out this job. And finally I doubt that the majority of machinists still have experience with sharpening these things. They are used to throwaway bits.

The common woodworking sharpening jigs are especially good at one thing: maintaining an exact angle. But that is one of the least important aspects of sharpening a plane blade or chisel. So there is no reason to believe that you get always a better edge with a jig then without one, as soon as you're practised enough in freehand sharpening.

[Prashun Patel]

I have no issue with the mk ii on narrow chisels. With narrow chisels, the nuts exert a lot of force on the chisel, the small chisel moves the fulcrum farther from the nut vs a wider blade. So you can get skewing, unless you are gentle with your adjustment, or tweak one side or the other to compensate as mentioned above. Also sometimes using the yellow or green roller setting will allow a further blade projection which allows more accurate registration with the right angle attachment.

[Eric Schubert]

I can definitely agree that hand sharpening can be faster than dropping a blade into a jig and setting it up, but the jig works for good, repeatable results, especially when you first start out like me. Once the bevel is established, you can keep the bevel flat on a stone by feel. When I tried hand sharpening initially on the chisel, I just found myself rounding over the bevel and making a mess. I know I just need practice, but I'd rather get the tool sharpened and spend my time actually using it. But all of this frustration was just when setting the initial bevel on an old tool that needed a lot of help.

The chisel is sharp, for sure. I did test it out on some pine, and it was able to start paring without any real issues. It's not as sharp as it could be, but that will come with experience and practice sharpening.

I also nabbed one of my plane blades and tossed it into the MKII. This blade was for my old Craftsman/Sargent low-angle block plane. I set the bevel at 25°, and then tried out the micro-bevel feature on the roller. It seemed to work pretty well, although it seems you need to be careful that you keep light pressure on the blade to prevent from taking more off on one side than another. But this actually ended up putting just a touch of camber on the blade. I popped it into my LA block plane and tried it out. As with the chisel, it was sharp, but not scary sharp. It was able to take nice shavings and leave a smooth finish on some pine. Overall, I'm very happy with my first attempt with a plane blade.

A couple of side thoughts...

I've tried polishing up my straight razors (for looks, not for sharpness) using the automotive abrasive that you mentioned, Glenn, and it's basically a really fine abrasive compound that's applied to a pad. It's definitely NOT sandpaper or abrasive film. The films are much easier to use for honing. And they definitely last a very long time.

I also don't really find that setting up the MKII takes all that long. It's not as fast as just hitting the stones by hand, but it only takes a few seconds to slip on the gauge and clamp in the chisel or blade. The amount of time I spent setting bevels far surpassed the setup time, making it miniscule and negligible at best.

And Brian, you're definitely not peeing on my birthday cake. My birthday isn't for a couple of months. I understand what you and others are saying. But much of what you guys do now has been learned over time. Trying to jump right in to hand sharpening is not only intimidating, it's also difficult when you don't really have any experience sharpening things or anyone to stand there with you and show you how to do it. (Let alone all the tools that you guys have. I don't even have a grinder.) You guys are my eyes, ears, and knowledge base. It can be hard to duplicate something when miscommunication is so easy using only typing, just like sending emails. Pictures are great, videos are even better. But nothing beats someone there in-person to show, guide, and teach you.

So, it's not like I'm blowing off the guys saying I should learn to hand sharpen my tools. But I'm going to stick with my honing guide until I learn more and gain some experience sharpening my tools. It's just easier to get consistent results as I work up from "total noob" status.

[Brian Holcombe]

I understand your feelings of intimidation, they will pass over time. The trick, IMO, to 'scary sharp' is to maintain the edge with a 6k or higher stone by hand. It's easy and quick and to some degree very similar to using a strop.

Use it for a day or two for planing/chiseling operations, then use the above method, get a burr a couple times, swipe the burr off and you'll find once you get the hang of this it's very very sharp and quick. Most people who look at my tools think that I spend half the day polishing the edges, where really I take 15 minutes and maintain the edges while drinking an espresso.

the guide is great to own, they're fantastic for getting back to square one and setting micro bevels, they are bad at maintenance because they can't find the flat the way you can by feeling for it.

[Prashun Patel]

Eric, these threads always devolve into "freehanding is better than using a guide." I am definitely aspiring to that someday. However, I can tell you that it's not the only way to get quick, repeatable, usable, wonderful, happy results. In fact, my own method (guide + Worksharp + stones) works for me so well, I am having trouble disciplining myself to learn freehanding. The method that works easiest for you is the one you will use most often; and that's what it's really about.

[Dave Proper]

Prashun,
I agree that these threads always seem to devolve into "freehanding is better than using a guide.". I would agree that free handing is easier than using a guide but would like to see someone demonstrate that the edge is any "better" freehand than with a guide. I lap my blade's backs on my diamond stones and know they are flat and true. As to the bevels, my Worksharp is my friend. I have watched guys free hand plane blades and chisels and read numerous descriptions but it doesn't work for me. So often you hear "if I can do it, anybody can!". We'll good for them but it does not mean everybody can do it. Do I wish I could do it? Heck yes, but I am content with a system that works for me. The "free handing is better" mantra just serves to set some of us up for frustration and acts as a barrier to newbies.
Dave

[Steve Friedman]

Eric, these threads always devolve into "freehanding is better than using a guide." I am definitely aspiring to that someday. However, I can tell you that it's not the only way to get quick, repeatable, usable, wonderful, happy results. In fact, my own method (guide + Worksharp + stones) works for me so well, I am having trouble disciplining myself to learn freehanding. The method that works easiest for you is the one you will use most often; and that's what it's really about.

Well said!

Maybe I'll get the knack of freehanding some day, but once you get into a groove, honing guides don't take that long to set up. For me, it's definitely quicker than having to spend the time fixing a rounded edge. Besides, acquiring honing guides can become a slippery slope of its own. I don't want to publicly admit how many I own, but the MKII is not even close to being the most expensive! And I'll still probably be one of the first to buy the LV side clamping attachment and L-N's new guide as soon as they become available.

Steve

[Daniel Rode]

I have the MK-II guide and I've used it for some time. I also have an eclipse/vice style guide. I much prefer the latter. Smaller chisels are difficult to keep square in MK-II guide and it's more cumbersome to use and setup. The problem I has with my vice style guide was that it was hard to get the chisels to set into the dovetail shaped clamping area. I just got a new one (from LV, ironically) and the chisels seem to lock into place with less trouble.

For plane irons, the eclipse style guide is even better. Because it has a small wheel in the center, it's pretty easy to add a camber to a plane iron. This is not simple with the MK-II. A different wheel is available for to MK-II form cambering but I've never used it and don't want to spend the money.

When I regrind I like to use a guide to reset everything to square and a precise main bevel angle . When I hone and re-hone, I've been mostly doing it freehand. I've also been experimenting with using a single convex bevel which can't be done with a guide. FWIW, I think I prefer the flat primary + micro bevel but the jury's still out.

Either way, I'm probably going to retire the MK-II entirely and maybe sell it. It's too sophisticated and too bulky for me. IMO, guide or freehand, sharpening should be simple and routine.

[Eric Schubert]

Well said!

Maybe I'll get the knack of freehanding some day, but once you get into a groove, honing guides don't take that long to set up. For me, it's definitely quicker than having to spend the time fixing a rounded edge. Besides, acquiring honing guides can become a slippery slope of its own. I don't want to publicly admit how many I own, but the MKII is not even close to being the most expensive! And I'll still probably be one of the first to buy the LV side clamping attachment and L-N's new guide as soon as they become available.

Steve

I think it's like anything else. We all like our shiny toys! ...ahem... I mean... shiny tools which are absolutely necessary to do our work.

[Chris Fournier]

These guides are not required. Slow methodical development of "touch" will get you great results including creating the microbevel. If you say that you use a guide to sharpen twist drill bits my opinion changes.

[Chris Parks]

These guides are not required. Slow methodical development of "touch" will get you great results including creating the microbevel. If you say that you use a guide to sharpen twist drill bits my opinion changes.

And that is exactly the problem raised above, you can do it so everyone else must be able to do it. Some people can play the piano and some can't!

[miguel bernardo]

the Veritas MKII is a very nice piece of kit, but over time i moved away from it to a cheap eclipse style guide (i have two of those, the one i got from Stu´s shop is very nice and can accommodate a wide plane blade easily). i just find it quicker to set up, gives me better feedback and worrying about skewed edges is a thing of the past. on top of that, it´s always easier to override the thin wheel and put a camber on your blades - no need for a special wheel.

best,
Miguel.

[Rob Luter]

I have good success with the MKII, but I really only use it to establish the final edge. I flatten the backs on a diamond stone, then hollow grind everything on a low speed wheel. I use 3M abrasive film to lap the backs and hone the edges using the MKII. The abrasive film lasts a good long time as I'm not using it for the "heavy lifting". I lined the MKII clamp with a thin sheet of PSA backed cork and it grips even the narrowest chisels. I free hand only when touching up edges, as I prefer the precision the jig offers.