Jessem's new dowel jig WOW!!!!

[Dan Bowman]

Frank - I'll echo Alan's comment. I've had a domino for 3 years and the Jessem a couple months, but I already prefer the Jessem. It's simply more accurate. I count on the Domino being just a hair off because unless you build a clamping jig, you're holding it in place. The Jessem locks down tight and there's no movement. It may not be as fast, but it's a lot more accurate.

[Will Blick]

So how significant are the benefits of the Jessem over the Dowelmax?

Dan, I considered a Domino, and one of the features I liked was the slight sloppiness of the domino on its width, this assures simple alignment. My fear of the Jessem was, being off the slightest amount would create pieces that won't fit, i.e. no error allowance. You seem to have dispelled the need for such with the Jessem, is my assessment fair?

[James White]

Frank - I'll echo Alan's comment. I've had a domino for 3 years and the Jessem a couple months, but I already prefer the Jessem. It's simply more accurate. I count on the Domino being just a hair off because unless you build a clamping jig, you're holding it in place. The Jessem locks down tight and there's no movement. It may not be as fast, but it's a lot more accurate.

That it? I am cured of Domino envy? I refuse to believe it! Till I see some more proof.

[joe milana]

Frank - I'll echo Alan's comment. I've had a domino for 3 years and the Jessem a couple months, but I already prefer the Jessem. It's simply more accurate. I count on the Domino being just a hair off because unless you build a clamping jig, you're holding it in place. The Jessem locks down tight and there's no movement. It may not be as fast, but it's a lot more accurate.

I've looked at the Domino countless times, and have always shied away for the very reason you mention. Doweling jigs are slower and laborious on larger projects, but the accuracy makes up for it.

[frank shic]

dan, did you try the domiplate modification for the domino? although dust collection is non-existent, the jessem doesn't seem to produce as much waste as the domino. i may have to purchase one of these jessem dowelling jigs to see the difference for myself. wouldn't mind getting back some dough lol

[Dan Bowman]

Frank - I was not familiar with the domiplate, but it looks like a valuable accessory that would improve accuracy. And I'm not giving up my Domino - with the optional 4 mm cutter I can mortise 3/8" stock (jig necessary) which is impossible with the Jessem.

[Will Blick]

The 4mm domino is a game changer for those of us who join thinner stock. A normal biscuit is 3.2mm thick IIRC.... so we are approaching biscuit thickness, yet versatility to do more...

[frank shic]

dan, there's a lot of discussion on the festool owner's forum about it. one of the members is evidently a machinist and has built a few batches to center the dominos on 1/2" and 3/4" stock although you can build one on your own like i did and use some of the extra parts from that useless festool accessory that's supposed to help with vertical positioning... i forget the name specifically and use one of those jig knobs you get from rockler's. i'm looking forward to building some cabinet boxes with it in a few weeks.

[James White]

I am reviving this thread as I am unsure about loose dowels. I have noticed that my dowels are a bit loose. Upon further investigation I have found that both Jessem and Dowelmax are using 9.7mm drills and guides on there jigs (Jessem has stopped this practice on there newest dowel jig). It seemed to me that this may not be so good since dowels are made for a 3/8" bit. Well I found the following post on the Canadian Woodworking site. It seem that this manufaturer of dowel pins seems to think that a 3/8 dowel in a 9.7mm hole if not a full strength joint. Does anyone know where to get 9.7mm dowel pins? I thought about using a 3/8" drill. But that would lead to inaccurate holes. Since the bushings are for a 9.7mm bit. It would also lead to not being able to use the alignment pin.

forum.canadianwoodworkin (dot) com/showthread.php?46205-Smaller-dowelmax-dowels

There has been no change in material, only to the tooling.

I have struggled for years to make the 3/8” pins closer to .375”, design problems with the tooling prevented this. To make the 3/8” to exact size the compression rollers would double roll the pins rolling the high points down, making the pins much smaller than .375”. I have recently re-engineered the tooling and am now able to make the 3/8” pins so that they will work better for my customers who use a 3/8” drill in jigs and automatic drills and inserters.

Most jigs and all industrial applications use a drill the same size as the pins used.

The 3/8” pins start out the same size they always did. The package says 3/8” I don’t believe that anyone should think that they would be suitable for any other size.

A normal dowel joint should be a friction fit, that is, if you can put the joint together by hand and more important, if you can take that joint apart by hand, the joint is much too loose. Dry fitting should be done with dowels that are smaller than standard to facilitate taking the joint apart. There should be no need to use excessive numbers of pins to keep a joint together. It is normal to use a dead blow hammer or clamp pressure to pull a joint together. I have a customer who tells me he has made over 30,000 chairs using my pins with most joints having 2 pins and has never had a joint failure, I met his largest customer at a trade show and he confirmed my customers claims.

It seems to me that somehow I have been made responsible for other peoples decisions and actions. I have never promoted or said that my 3/8” dowel pins should be used in anything other than a 3/8” hole, never in a 9.7 mm hole. A 9.7 mm drill is .3819” in diameter, this is not only larger than the dowels my pins are formed from, not enough of the compression will come out of the pins to come anywhere near to the diameter required to fill a 9.7 mm hole. There isn’t enough moisture available from the glue for the pin to regain its former size and not enough time, with the glue setting up much too quickly to allow much expansion. To make matters worse a drill will make a hole larger than itself, if it didn’t you wouldn’t be able to remove the drill from the hole.

The glue to wood bond comes on either side of the compressed grooves, the glue resides in the grooves not where the high points contact the wood and this is where some of the compression is released. Most glues shrink during curing and some if this is made up with the expanding wood. Other non-compressed multigroove dowel pins also expand when they take up some of the glue moisture, the problem comes when the joint and the pins dry out. The non-compressed pins shrink back to their former size and start to pull away from the glue. During the life of the joint during winter and summer cycling the non-compressed pins will become compressed by the hole getting smaller when the wood swells and when the wood dries out again in dryer weather the joint starts to loosen, continual cycling is the main culprit to joint failure. Straight grooves allow loose pins to pull straight out with little restriction.

The optimum glue to wood joint is .003” this will form on either side of the high points, no dowel pin is capable of having all of the surface area available with the required gap.

While I am not responsible for the situation users of jigs that use 9.7 mm drills have inherited, I do feel compelled to do what I can to make available a dowel pin that would suit a 9.7 mm hole.

This is why I have created the 9.7 mm pins, while the 3/8” pin size was used by woodworkers in a 9.7 mm hole, it was never large enough to give a proper bond. I have had a number of inquiries by concerned woodworkers even before I had changed the 3/8" tooling and thought that it wasn’t fair to these customers to have a jig designed for a 9.7 mm pin when none exists.

We currently have 9.7 mm pins in 1”, 1 1/2” and 2” lengths in quantities of 100 and some in 1,000.

The new sizes mentioned on the inserts refers to new lengths of existing diameters as well as new metric sizes and the 9.7 mm pins, not the small change in diameter of the 3/8” pins, which amounted to .002" to .003".

Some if the new drilling machines that look like biscuit joiners with 2 drills use metric drills, Imperial drills are not available in the sizes required to fit some of the new machines, this is why I have started manufacturing some Metric sizes.

The tolerances I work in are smaller than some of the metal working shops I know, keep in mind this is wood we are working in and it sometimes seems to have a mind of its own.

I hope this helps.

[Bill Huber]

I really don't have an answer for you on where to get the 9.7 dowels, I really don't know that I have ever used them.

I get all my dowels from Lee Valley, they are the expansible dowels and are labeled 3/8". I use the 9.7mm bit from Jessem and I also still have a 9.7mm that I got from DowelMax, its really nice to have 2 bits.
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/pag...50,43217,43228

I will say that the dowels of late do not fit as tight as the one I first stated using a few years ago but I have had no problem with them. I have dry fit things together and left them over night and then had to sue a dead blow hammer to get things apart.

I put some glue in the hole and then push the dowel in, glue will squeeze out all around the dowel, if not I add another drop of glue, I also do the same on the mating part. I then will brush the squeeze out around and add any glue that is needed on the surfaces of the boards.

I have not had a dowel joint failure on any of my projects.

[Greg Brophey]

Hello to all,

This question is for anyone who may use longer dowels or tried Jessem's newest doweling jig. What do you think of the newer jig and would you still buy the bigger one discussed in this thread going back now a few years. I am getting ready to buy a doweling jig for making some doors, and felt this was best way to go. I would prefer 5/8" dowels by 5" long, but don't see any jig going to that diameter. My biggest concern since I have not used any of these doweling jigs yet, is what is the precision of the dowels when drilling in deeper for longer dowels? This will lead to a error factor not recognized in the shorter dowels, but will multiply quite a bit when using longer dowels, unless these jigs will let me drill in perfectly 90 degrees to the jig going in at least 2 1/2" in the wood. Can anyone comment on what they have experienced when doing this? If no one has tried, would someone please experiment into this? I have written to Jessem about this question but have not gotten any replies. I noticed they don't sell any dowels longer than 2". Is that for a reason???

I am leaning toward this newer model only due to the fact that it has 1/2" diameter dowel holes. Would someone please comment on the accuracy of these jigs for longer dowels, and the difference in the new and old models, if any, as I believe the older model may be able to do more things accurately, but does not have 1/2" bushings.

I appreciate any time taken to answer these questions, as these have not been asked before and are very important issues that should be analyzed.

greg

[Harvey Miller]

Greg:


I tried that using the dowelmax. My hole depth was 1.8 inches. To reach your desired depth I had to remove the dowelmax and make a second pass freehand.
So, I think you’d probably need to drill in two stages- first with the jig, second to depth (preferably with a drill press).

[Bill Huber]

Greg:


I tried that using the dowelmax. My hole depth was 1.8 inches. To reach your desired depth I had to remove the dowelmax and make a second pass freehand.
So, I think you’d probably need to drill in two stages- first with the jig, second to depth (preferably with a drill press).

Couldn't you just buy a longer bit, they make them like 12" long.

[Greg Brophey]

I was thinking along the lines of just buying a larger length 1/2" that would allow me this.

What about the newer model Jessem came out with?? Any feedback on that? I don't think anyone here has bought both models, but interesting to hear. Would you still favor the older model over this newer model?

Does anyone see any problems drilling longer holes in these bushing guides for 5" dowels, regardless of the diameter? Bill, what do you think of the accuracy in going deeper and longer, or haven't you tried this? I appreciate the time you have taken to respond. I would definitely go the one drill length route, and I see so many door manufacturers now using 1/2" or 5/8" dowels in their door construction. I am talking passageway doors, not cabinet doors. Same thing, only bigger and longer.

[Bill Huber]

I was thinking along the lines of just buying a larger length 1/2" that would allow me this.

What about the newer model Jessem came out with?? Any feedback on that? I don't think anyone here has bought both models, but interesting to hear. Would you still favor the older model over this newer model?

Does anyone see any problems drilling longer holes in these bushing guides for 5" dowels, regardless of the diameter? Bill, what do you think of the accuracy in going deeper and longer, or haven't you tried this? I appreciate the time you have taken to respond. I would definitely go the one drill length route, and I see so many door manufacturers now using 1/2" or 5/8" dowels in their door construction. I am talking passageway doors, not cabinet doors. Same thing, only bigger and longer.

I bought the new one when it came out and had it about a week and sold it to Phil Thien here on the Creek.
I just like the way the old one worked better, it has the clamps made right into the jig and the new one you have to use a clamp on it.

I think the accuracy would be no problem with either of the jigs. But if you are going to use 1/2" dowels then you will have to go with the new one.

Here is a thread from Phil on the new one.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...ghlight=jessem