Stabilize wood for turning

[Matt Mackinnon]

I have a huge box of some really nice off cuts of burls and spalted wood. The down side is that most of it is too fragile for myself with my skills to turn. I seem to be able to find that catch and blow it out.

I was talking to several turners who suggested that I stabilize the wood first. So I went out and got one of those 2.5gal pressure paint cans from my local Princess Auto (Harbour Freight). I own an air compressor as well as a vacuum pump (for my OneWay lathe) so I guess I can use the pot either way.

I can easily get the Alumilite resin locally and use it under pressure.. but don't have any experience on how well that will work with pushing the resin into a lightweight (kiln dry) burl.

I have read about Catus Juice, but it's not so readily available here in Canada and obscenely expensive to ship it until you get into large containers that cost hundreds of dollars. ouch.

Are there any other options that I should be looking into?
Should I look to make this pot into a vacuum or pressure pot?

any help or suggestions is much appreciated.

Matt

[Shawn Pachlhofer]

have you tried contacting Curtis at Turn Tex directly to ask him about shipping to Canada?

www.turntex.com is his website.

you'll need to convert your pressure pot to a vacuum chamber to use Cactus Juice. Since it does not have a clear lid to watch, you'll also need to rig up some sort of a liquid trap between the chamber and the vacuum pump.

[robert baccus]

Pressure and resins don't work well on big pieces. Cheap and easy---Obtain some clear fiberglass 0r epoxy resin--mix an appropriate amount?? thin with acetone until it just runs off a stiring stick. Using a VINYL black yard bag do a shake and bake after adding your roughed out wood and thinned resin. Shake every hour or so and it will be hard in the morning.. When turning if you hit some soft wood down deep simply repeat. It does not discolor the wood or change the texture--a big +.

[Grant Wilkinson]

Matt: Alumilite will not work for your application. You may want to give Pentacryl a try. You can get small bottles at LV. I've used it on a couple of green blanks and it did the job very well. I simply soaked the pieces. I'm sure that a vacuum chamber would have improved the results.

[Dan Masshardt]

You might be able to find another turner there in Canada who could stabilize some for you.

What size of pieces? What kind of items are you trying to turn with this wood?

[Olaf Vogel]

I love turning such crazy and rotted pieces, so have tried out a few different stabilizers.

Pentacryl - personally I've had no luck.
- Didn't harden the wood.
- Left a waxy finish that would not accept any other finish.
- Took a lot of product/cost and time. I found it to be basically a waste of effort. Very possible I did something wrong, but there are many similar reviews online.
- Can't recommend it

MinWax Wood Hardener - works very well.
- Soaks in at least 1". I generally cut mostly to shape then pour this on - so I don't soak the whole thing.
- Dries very quickly - multiple coats can be applied in a few min.
- Hard as rock after 24 hrs. Cuts well.
- Stinks like hell - only do this outside with a filter mask. No idea what the volatile components are, but don't want to be exposed to them...probably very flammable. Its like working with acetone, evaporates instantly.
BTW - spraying this is likely not a good idea. I literally POUR this onto the very soft spots and it dries as I watch.

- Expensive if you are doing large pieces. Only comes in pint sized bottles.
- Not available in all HD/Lowes etc, but not that hard to find.
- personally I really like it. No...I haven't been sniffing it...

CPES - Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer - http://www.rotdoctor.com/products/cpes.html
Haven't tried it, sounds promising. Not sure if the benefits are all marketing or its really "better" than the competitors.

Olaf

[Michael Armstrong]

Matt:
Don't know where in Canada you are but if you are in Ontario and better yet close to Owen Sound we might be able to work something out. How large and how much wood are you needing stabilized and how big are the pieces?

Michael

[robert baccus]

If you are uncomfortable with homemade brews, there is a marine product called "Git Rot" that has been used for 50 years. My recipe is simply a cheap knockoff and has fixed many soft bowls and boats. An old boat yard mixture.

[Matt Mackinnon]

up until now I have been just using the lighter than water CA for the cracks in the burls. Then I have been useing the thick CA to fill in the gaps in the burls. then I eventually get around to turning them. I am not doing bowels or really anything complicated. Mostly small things like pens, bottle stops, and christmas tree ornaments. Nothing like having the largest OneWay lathe to turn items that are smaller than your fist.

Ultimately, I think that I need have/use both a vacuume chamber to stabilize, and the pressure pot to cast. When taking an endcut of some burl, you get very large voids with splintered gaps that are natural to that part of the wood. What will be needed is to fill all that area with Alumilite so you get a solid chunk to turn and make items like wine bottle tops, and the roofs for birdhouse christmas ornaments. Yet, I also when making pens like to use full pieces of burl that have micro fissures and fractures in the wood. I have had times when they simply blow-up when turning.

The down side to my single pressure pot / vacuum chamber from this Paint Pot solution is that it works very well for pressure but for vacuum you can't see what is going on inside. I am wondering. From the video's that I have seen from TurnTex using cacusjuice, it looks to bubble (boil) when the air inside the wood comes out under the vacuum. Now inside the metal pot, if I put a larger container like a tall plastic potato salad tub that you get at Walmart with some holes poked in the lid, and put the wood and cactus juice inside of that, then the tub would minimize the splash out of the juice but still allow air to be removed to make a vacuum. Would that not work? Just trying to think outside of the box.

Matt

[Grant Wilkinson]

Your potato salad tub idea will work fine. You don't need a lid on it at all. Just make sure that it is tall enough to contain the "froth" or you will have a mess to clean up. Also make sure that you have enough stabilizer to fully fill the voids, or you will end up sucking air when you release the vacuum.

[Dan Masshardt]

I have a friend who uses a pickle jar to stabilize. There are many possibilities - some safer than others.

I have a pressure pot for casting and a clear vacuum chamber for stabilizing.

Like most other things in the shop, the 'right' tool is best. But other things can work, especially for occasional use.

[Matt Mackinnon]

I was thinking of the pickle jar for giving it a test/try. To go out and spend hundreds on a vacuum chamber seems rather pre-mature if you can give it a test with a much lower cost alternative. if it works well and I can see a return for the outlay then I'd consider buying the right tool.

thanks for all the suggestions and feedback.

[Matt Mackinnon]

I got my pressure pot. it says it is rated to 80psi on the box, and an operating pressure (for painting) between 25-50psi. I gather from reading about Alumilite that you put it under pressure to reduce the size of the bubbles basically to microscopic and the higher the pressure, the smaller the bubble. Would going up to 60psi be better than running at 50? at what point is the diminishing return vs. safety?

I have also made myself a vacuum pot out of a 2 quart mason jar from my M.I.L. I am waiting on getting some of the Hold Fast resin as I can buy that locally, rather than trying to order through Curtis, though I probably will end up buying through him once I have a few pieces under my belt and buy a factory pressure chamber and start doing bulk.

I am interested in casting some buckeye burls along with maple and others that I have found. I know that the buckeye is very light so I am to gather there is lots of air pockets inside the burl. I can understand that stabilizing the wood first before casting with Alumilite would be the preference. is this something that I should do to all my wood/alumilite castings, or just for the porous ones? I would think that a denser wood will just not take in much of the stabilizing resin but is there another chemical side to this? ie it helps the alumilite to bond?

Just looking to pull on the knowledge here before trying it myself.

thanks

[Dale Gillaspy]

I would steer away from pickle jars for vacuum stabilizing. I have seen them implode, and it is not fun. You can make your own for about $12. Get a large stainless steel tin from a restaurant supply house. Use thick plexi for the top and screw the gauge and valve into that. Use rubber as a sealer between the two....done. Works great.

[Matt Mackinnon]

I have a few very good stainless steel buckets from LeeValley but the hardest part is finding the correct size rubber gasket to fit around it. I think that I am basically stuck buying a factory chamber then.

From what I have seen on the internet, the glass chamber failures seem to come from people who want to make some plasma light show and are putting electrodes and a voltage through the vacuum and the heat of this arc causes the glass to fail.

What I am left to wonder is how much vacuum pressure is needed to pull air out of wood? Do you need to get down to 25" of mercury, or would a lighter vacuum work, be it more slowly?