What is considered handmade?

[jack forsberg]

"the Machines purpose is to remove skill." Or speed it up. There's a flip side to almost every argument..

The best thing is too be proud of what your making and not worry about others labeling you.

I made no augment for one side or the other. I will say that thous with just hand tool skills would not last a day in my shop. You need machine skills like those for CNC. but i would hardly call sending wood through the planer hand planed. One is not better than the other in terms of pride.

Many hand tools are simple machines made to remove the skill of an Ax or knife.

[John T Barker]

Here's some food for thought:
octararo tall chest.jpe
I worked for a company and while an "apprentice" I helped our top cabinetmaker make a chest identical to this. All the lumber was face jointed and then sent through the planer. I hand scraped it afterwords. Raised panels were milled on a shaper then hand sanded. Drawers were dovetailed by hand with a variety of power tool methods to speed up the process. Bracket feet were cut on a bandsaw and the hole drilled on a drill press. All moldings were made shaped on a shaper or with router bits, then hand scaped and sanded. All tenons were (probably) cut on a table saw, mortises cut with a hollow chisel mortiser. This work was done primarily by one man at his bench (and nearby machines) with me assisting in the grunt work.

"Hand made" or not?

[Frederick Skelly]

Do 'factories' include those that actually do handwork (meaning work performed utilizing hand tools)? I'm curious.

This thread presents the idea that 'factory made' is junk and 'craftsman made' is always good. There are plenty of things which are both factory and craftsman made, by a craftsman working in a factory.

I present that rather than needing to pigeon hole utilizing 'broad strokes' definitions one should consider good or bad on it's own merit.

I think I get your point Brian. Not all factory made stuff if junk - depends on the material used and how it's put together. I think someone would be hard pressed to say Ethan Allen is junk, though it's factory made. To me, a factory is doing mass production - hundreds a year sort of thing. If they do some of it with hand tools, Id still bet that at large volumes (hundreds per year) they arent doing most of the work by hand. So I might call that darn good furniture, but to me, it's not hand made.

[Brian Holcombe]

I sure you're correct when you say it is mostly machine tools, however they are using handtools in many high end shops some of them are quite large (200 men). Short of a rare few that's about as close as I think you'll come to a 'handmade' factory product. I dont consider everything produced by a factory environment to be mass produced, I think mass production implies a scale at the level meant to stock the shelves of retail giants, but a factory (in my opinion) need not be massive.

Look at the work of Carl Hansen & Son, PP Mobler, Rud Rasmussen (i've seen recent video of these guys actually chopping dovetails in their shop), Elie Bleu tabletier, Hermes, Louis Vuitton (they make traditional luggage in the traditional method utilizing much hand work), Marunao. These companies are large enough to supply stock to many luxury retailers.

I dont fault anyone for producing using machine tools, one must earn a living and keep their factory working and so I certainly understand why many steps have been taken to maintain as much handmade quality as they can while speeding up process with certain machinery. However, if quality is the top priority then not all hand tasks can be eliminated, so what they will often do is minimize them to those key steps.

I was not pointing to your post in specific with my reply, more to the general sentiment of this thread.

[jack duren]

Here's some food for thought:
octararo tall chest.jpe
I worked for a company and while an "apprentice" I helped our top cabinetmaker make a chest identical to this. All the lumber was face jointed and then sent through the planer. I hand scraped it afterwords. Raised panels were milled on a shaper then hand sanded. Drawers were dovetailed by hand with a variety of power tool methods to speed up the process. Bracket feet were cut on a bandsaw and the hole drilled on a drill press. All moldings were made shaped on a shaper or with router bits, then hand scaped and sanded. All tenons were (probably) cut on a table saw, mortises cut with a hollow chisel mortiser. This work was done primarily by one man at his bench (and nearby machines) with me assisting in the grunt work.

"Hand made" or not?

The real question is do you feel its hand made or not? If you made the piece tomorrow twice as fast and with quality as good as the first piece with more machine, does it mean anything in reality?

[John Donhowe]

How 'bout an operational definition of "handmade" based on the adage "to err is human"? That is, something is handmade if, somewhere in the construction of a piece, there is evidence (or at least the opportunity) of an "oops" moment: a defect in the end product (imperfect joint, ding, or whatever) that you wouldn't expect in a a machine manufactured piece. My guess is that I'm not alone in my limited experience that while I strive for perfection in any project, I have yet to produce anything where there hasn't been a single goof (even if visible only to me).

I take some consolation for my mistakes from the story that harpsichord builders from 300+ years ago would intentionally make small flaws in their instruments because "only God can achieve perfection."

[Brian Henderson]

So if I make a wooden toy on my electric motor driven lathe is that hand made?

According to some people, no. But saying that a project isn't hand-made because you used a random orbit sander to sand it is ridiculous.

[Mike Henderson]

I take some consolation for my mistakes from the story that harpsichord builders from 300+ years ago would intentionally make small flaws in their instruments because "only God can achieve perfection."

I first heard that story about Persian carpets, which are hand tied. Of course, it's just an excuse for the mistakes. In any complex hand made project there will be mistakes.

Mike

[Mike Henderson]

Years ago, oil paint art was brought in to the US from Asia. The pictures were advertised as "hand painted". But the way they were painted was that the canvas moved down a production line. On a landscape, for example, one worker would paint birds flying in the background. Another would put in sand dunes. Another would paint some grass on the sand dunes, etc.

So are those pictures hand painted? Or not?

Thomas Kinkade is reputed to have used (he passed away) a high end reproduction process, but to hand paint a part of the picture and then sign the work. Was that an "original" Kinkade? I believe it was sold that way.

Mike

[Brian Kent]

The other alternative is that you go into the forest and cut the tree down with an ax (or two man buck saw), cut the log into boards with a hand saw, flatten the board with hand planes, saw the wood with hand saws, and never use an electron in the making of the furniture. And I don't think that's reasonable or possible.
Mike

But Mike, in order for it to be hand-made shouldn't you dig up the iron ore with your bare hands, pound the chunks of iron into a bucket, process it in a hand-made smelter, and make the axe and your saw by hand, then go into the forest and cut down a tree.

[Brian Henderson]

But Mike, in order for it to be hand-made shouldn't you dig up the iron ore with your bare hands, pound the chunks of iron into a bucket, process it in a hand-made smelter, and make the axe and your saw by hand, then go into the forest and cut down a tree.

But you can't do any of that, you're still using tools! You should be using your hands and nothing but your hands for everything!

[Andrew Hughes]

Handmade or custom made have lost all power for me means nothing. There is a commercial that's runs out here about handgrown Avocados.As if someone is standing there while a Avocado grows in thier hand.What will advertisers thing of next handmade custom cows?

[Mike Henderson]

But Mike, in order for it to be hand-made shouldn't you dig up the iron ore with your bare hands, pound the chunks of iron into a bucket, process it in a hand-made smelter, and make the axe and your saw by hand, then go into the forest and cut down a tree.

You make a good point. Of course, our ancestors who made the first copper tools (which preceded iron) did do that, perhaps with stone tools.

And that's a good example of why it's impossible to be totally "hand made". You're always starting from some form of machine made tools or supplies.

Mike

[Brian Kent]

I put this question to my son as we walked around Renaissance Faire, looking at rustic objects. He reminded me that if you go far enough back, the tools that made the tools that made the tools were made by somebody's hands, do my definition everything machine made is ultimately hand made. I enjoy my son

[Frederick Skelly]

Everything you've said here makes sense to me. Thanks for the insights, Brian!
Fred

I sure you're correct when you say it is mostly machine tools, however they are using handtools in many high end shops some of them are quite large (200 men). Short of a rare few that's about as close as I think you'll come to a 'handmade' factory product. I dont consider everything produced by a factory environment to be mass produced, I think mass production implies a scale at the level meant to stock the shelves of retail giants, but a factory (in my opinion) need not be massive.

Look at the work of Carl Hansen & Son, PP Mobler, Rud Rasmussen (i've seen recent video of these guys actually chopping dovetails in their shop), Elie Bleu tabletier, Hermes, Louis Vuitton (they make traditional luggage in the traditional method utilizing much hand work), Marunao. These companies are large enough to supply stock to many luxury retailers.

I dont fault anyone for producing using machine tools, one must earn a living and keep their factory working and so I certainly understand why many steps have been taken to maintain as much handmade quality as they can while speeding up process with certain machinery. However, if quality is the top priority then not all hand tasks can be eliminated, so what they will often do is minimize them to those key steps.

I was not pointing to your post in specific with my reply, more to the general sentiment of this thread.