How is a Shaper safer than a Router Table?

[Chris Rosenberger]

My main point was that statement that router tables have no place in the shop. Both router tables & shapers have a place in the shop. Like all machines in the shop they can be as safe or as dangerous as the operator allows. The point of all the pictures is that I have options for different types of work. I would not edge a 16' piece of base on a router table nor would I edge a 3" X 3" trophy base on a shaper.

[Dev Emch]

If the router table guys ever get a chance to drive a nice shaper cutter, they will not go back.

At the end of the day, router tables, routers, pin routers, shapers and vertical milling machines are all examples of spinning spindles turning a cutting device.

What makes the router table so onry is the design of its knives. I thought I already talked about this yesterday? Because of design differences between the two, the shaper cutter is less prown to profile burning, blow out, work item grabing and premature dulling than the same profile found in a router bit. The smaller cutting circle also provides a better opportunity for this small bit to "suck" your fingers into the knives after it grabs your work item.

Now you can take many many many many and did I say many more cuts with a router bit than a shaper cutter. A shaper cutter can pulverize lumber into hamster bedding in a single pass without all the afore mentioned issues.

Shapers are often more substantial and have more robust fencing systems which actually enclose the cutter head. For the most part, you should always keep the cutter head enclosed for safety and dust collection pourposes. You should also strive to make the opening as narrow as possible and to use a zero insert setup whenever possible. I know, I know, I know, in my pictures of my shaper, I have violated this. But I also have a massive and I do mean massive cast iron, ball bearing sliding table with an eccentric hold down clamp to keep Mr. Pinky compliant with my 8 inch rule. See my hoffman pictures for more details here....

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...=belated+gloat

Now when it comes to dados and grooves, we have a new problem. The best way to cut a dado on a shaper in the middle of the panel is to use a spiral flute cutter similar to a vertical end mill. Most of you guys own at least one of these bits now from 1/4 in and up. This requires most shapers to have a dedicated collet spindle and then, most often dont run as fast as they should for this type of cut. But you can still get excellent results by backing off your feed rates. For doing blind grooves in case sides or drawer sides, this bit is indispensible. Ironicly, this is also where a router excels. The router runs at a much higher speed and has much lighter bearings making it ideal to handle small, narrow bits of this type.

Cutting dados on the edges of panels or the edges of boards is once again best done using a groover or dado/rebate head on the shaper. I can get about 8 inchs of lift out of my spindle so any groove in the side of panel within this limit can be done using my Leitz adjustable groover head. Results are great.

As many have already mentioned, power feeders improve safety. They also improve quality. In woods like maple and cheery, stopping the feed to reposition your hands almost guarantees a burn mark. A power feeder elminates this. The power feeder also keeps most body parts from comming within the 8 in limit of those knives. Often, I can no longer usually see my cutter head. I just line up the board on the fence and table and as soon as the feeder grabs it, its done. Perfect cut and no finger loss risk.

You can put a feeder on a router table and smaller ones are actually a joy on router tables. But a regular sized feeder will tip a router table over!

As previously mentioned, router bits have a weakened design. Those huge 3 inch plus cutters were cut from a billet and the core is now the stem. But the core is also the weakest section of the billet. Most of this can be eliminated by using a steel such as 1144 but not all bit makers go to this expense and even fewer of them use hardened and tempered 4140 chrome molley. So here is another reason to opt for a shaper cutter in place of a router bit.

Many have said that you can use a router table for everything you can use a shaper on. This is simply misguided. A router table does do an excellent job on smaller, less demanding profiles but there are many moulding and coping cuts done on shapers where motors of 5 through 10 HP are being taxed.

And lastly. The shaper is the most important machine in my shop. I can set the shaper up to do most any operation that other machines can do. Now clearly, I cannot make a shaper function as a lathe or disc sander but being reasonable, this statement is valid. Edge jointing is easily done on a shaper and if you only need a 6 inch jointer, you may consider doing away with the jointer in exchange for a nice jointing head for your shaper.

As to comments regarding pin routers. First of all, many consider the pin router obsolete. Second, pin routers often use the much smaller cutters with which I have no issues. Third, pin routers like some by C.R. Onsrud, (i.e. inverted ones), actually use a type of heavy duty router motor. This is not the same motor in your PC 690 or 7518 router. Lastly, many older dedicated pin routers where much more substantial than you give the credit for. I have an Onsrud 244 that I am rebuilding and it must weigh about 2000 pounds. I am removing the orig table and installing a milling machine type alternate table. This will give the functionality of a wood cutting milling machine. The guide pin is still in the table by the way so you can still do pattern template shaping on this machine. I got this machine as scrap so its more of a pet project but it gave me a chance to see what a true pin router from yesterday was about. The bearings are insane and the motor is a two speed motor giving me both 10K ad 20K at the spindle. Note that this Onsrud was made by the old man and not the son who came up with the green and white, inverted pin routers.

Back to vertical cutters. Right now, I find I have more control and more accuracy by using a micro fence than by using a router table. The micro fence gives me a micrometer adjustment system that is second to none. And I get to keep both paws on the router when using it.

Now you can run router bits on a shaper and I have actually designed and machined the tooling to do this. I like to think that this gives me a wee bit more understanding than just throwing a bit on a router table or shaper.

http://www.woodcentral.com/shots/shot466.shtml

Hope this helps a bit.... just dont take my views to the local SMC coffee shop to pay for your joe.... you may also need your credit card.

[Mark Singer]

I would just like to add....this is a very informative thread and even if the router table fokes stick with the router tables , they can now think more about proper set ups and emulate certain aspects that shapers offer

[Dev Emch]

Mark is right. If your using a router table, mimick the setups used by shapers and you should be O.K.

And we all have our own viewpoints which is better. You say tomatoe and I say tomaaatoe. But at the end of the day, I still have to think that t router table is what you get when you allow cousins to marry. Its the inbred proginy of shapers.

[Chris Rosenberger]

Mark is right. If your using a router table, mimick the setups used by shapers and you should be O.K.

And we all have our own viewpoints which is better. You say tomatoe and I say tomaaatoe. But at the end of the day, I still have to think that t router table is what you get when you allow cousins to marry. Its the inbred proginy of shapers.

Now why did you have to get personal. No one insulted your family.

[Per Swenson]

I am sorry in advance.

I really shouldn't reply to these threads,

but in light of my strong opinion on these matters

I feel I must. As with the "Most dangerous tool thread" and

the various "I gave my RAS away threads".

Folks, it is not the tool but the human driving it.

Also the human responsible for set up.

If your not paying attention you are gonna

cut the end of you finger with a hand chisel.

You have to keep a healthy respect for all things.

Cars, firearms, stoves, bunk beds, biker bars, you get the Idea.

Per

[Chris Rosenberger]

Well stated Per.

[Allen Bookout]

It would be real interesting to see statistics on injuries incured using shapers vs router tables. Does anyone know of such a study? It comes to my mind that the shaper users are mostly professionals that are experts at what they do and that could contribute to the lack of accidents. A small group of us are amatures that just cannot justify the cost of a worthwhile shaper and their associated power feeders. I suppose that we could justify the cost if we end up loosing some fingers over it. In any case, if the danger is too great the pursuit of woodworking should cease. I am left wondering.

[Dev Emch]

Hmmmm, biker bars. You mean like rideing bikes on the wall of death in daytona?

I think its a valid point that more newbies are using router tables and more folks with experience are using shapers. That demographic makes sense. The sales guys will set you up with all this new tooling and have UPS drop it off to your door.

But Per is right. Walking into the Boot Hill Saloon in Daytona during Bike Week and yelling Harley obcenities will most likely result in a trip to Halifax General.

In the end, the most dangerous tool in your shop is the one with the most notches carved in its handgrip and that is up to you.

[Bill Lewis]

You have to keep a healthy respect for all things.

Cars, firearms, stoves, bunk beds, biker bars, you get the Idea.
Per

Explosives...
I just had to throw that one in. I've been working with high explosives (DoD USN RDT&E Engineer) for about 18 years now so you learn to have a healthy respect for things that can hurt you. There's not any second chances with explosives, but still, they are safer to handle than you'd think. It's how they are used/applied that makes the difference.

[Brian Jarnell]

I try to remember that all these tools are out to get me,it's when I forget the problems start.
The old,familiarity breeds contempt.

[jack duren]

over the yrs ive seen less injuries on shapers than tablesaws and am a victim of the tablesaw myself but shapers are much more dangerous in my opinion. i consider shapers and router tables to be the same only router tables wont handle the more aggressive bits.

[Brian Jarnell]

Just came in from using my spindle moulder,a bit flew off the piece of wood I was rounding the off,making some Adirondack chairs,wasn't dangerous,but a good reminder.

[Paul Canaris]

Which is safer has not been what drives me to use both, as there both dangerous. It's more ease of use and what works better in a given situation. For me the router table approach seems to be a bit easier to set up for ones or two's. The shaper is the way to go when doing a lot of parts and you need speed. Also, I can cut tennons on my shaper/sliding table (2.5" deep in a single pass) that I cannot cut on a router table. I really don’t like using larger cutter’s (i.e. panel raisers) on a router table either.

[Jack Clark]

Please forgive me if this sounds stupid--I know nothing about routers. But I am considering the purchase of one.

After a little reading, talking with experienced users and watching Norm's first installment of Router 101 last Saturday, I have a slightly better idea of what routers can do--both good (wow!) and bad (yuck).

I'm particularly interested in using the EZ-Smart guide system with a router. I'm also very interested in keeping all ten fingers intact. In light of the excellent discussions in this thread of router table vs shaper, how does the guided router (Festool and EZ-Smart) fit into the safety formula? Are they safer than a router table? Less safe than a shaper? More safe than both, but less useful for the woodworking effect you want?

Thank you