[OP]
Member
Stan, I live in NW KS, so I'm not sure what breed of cedar this is. I'm not to technologically smart, so I have a heck of a time with pictures. But this has ALOT of red & white in it, & is figured beautifully. I'm going to use some of it for it scroll work, too. Thank you for all the responses & help.
Last edited by Dennis Peacock; 06-02-2016 at 1:51 PM.
Sawdust703
Member
Brad you are not the only one that is or was confused about what king of tree this/these is/are
If you look at this here you’ll see it is no Cedar to start of with, but a Juniper, and there are several different ones, anyway I find it a nice wood to turn, even when it is soft and will loose that striking red color eventually and the nice smell even quicker.
Juniper aka Easter Red Cedar.jpg
I know people having problems working with it they say, I find it not problematic to turn or keep it without splitting or checking, even from green wood, as that is what I always use, just make sure you don’t rely on sandpaper to get a smooth surface, and dry it slowly.
Juniper.jpg Juniper bowl.jpg Junper candle-holder.jpg
Though yes the color does slowly changes from the red to a barely noticeable brown over the years, as I have had that happen to a few pieces I/We kept in our house.
Like this bud-vase that by 2010 has changed it’s color after 6 years sitting in our house in just indirect light, color has even more changed by now, no picture sorry.
Junper budvases.jpg Juniper 6 years old.jpg
Last edited by Leo Van Der Loo; 06-02-2016 at 12:15 AM.
Have fun and take care
Moderator
Leo,...I find it not problematic to turn or keep it without splitting or checking, even from green wood, as that is what I always use...
Very nice. Now I'll have to try turning some green, something I've never done.
Your post may solve a problem for me - I made my first Beads of Courage lidded bowls/boxes this year but don't have enough dry blanks large enough to make more without glue ups. But I have at least 20 cedar logs in a pile and another big one recently downed in a storm! Perfect!!
A question for you - how much does it move when turned green? I'll rough turn then dry to get a good fit on the lid but if I had an idea of what to expect it might help me decide how thick to leave the walls.
Also, do you have experience with both end grain and side grain bowls?
Thanks!
JKJ
Member
John I have turned quite a few boxes in the rough, put them in a paper bag and then forget all about them, then some day I just grab a couple and finish turn them, I find endgrain doesn’t give you that twist that side-grain does, still it does move and they can get tight if the fit was close.Originally Posted by John K Jordan
The only problem is of course the splitting that end grain will do, especially if the pith is in it, for me CA is the helping hand in preventing that, so it goes in on the inside, also a curved bottom (thin) will be able to move some.
How much does wood move, well that is not the same for different species and even in the same one, depending how fast or slow it grows and when it is cut down, to tell you the truth, I have never measured the size when green and again when dry, however as both the top and bottom piece move equally, the walls do not need the thickness that we need for a side-grain piece where we have endgrain and long-grain, that is shrinking in different amounts, or rather not at all in the length and the typical 8 to 12% in thickness for the long grain.
Also boxes are typical rather small and if the box goes a little oval that is hardly noticeable if at all.
There’s only a handful bowls (larger ones) I turned in endgrain direction, as I tend to turn rather user then so called “art” pieces and find that engrain is more prone to split later-on , plus the pith area that will give problems drying if it is in the piece.
As for side-grain bowls, that is how I turn my bowls and from green wood, and I have done this for better than 50 years, mind you only as a hobby starting at home in our shop around 1958, on a big metal lathe using faceplate and machinist chuck.
Making my tools and learning myself how to turn, without a teacher and the books, gouges and the internet we have now, it was not easy, but for the love of wood and the challenge to be able to do this in my otherwise metal world, and I got there in the end, I still do love to turn wood, any kind, well I try it at least ones
Have fun and take care
Moderator
Thanks, I've turned a lot of green maple, walnut, cherry, etc. but no wet eastern red cedar. I'll just try some and see what happens.
The Beads Of Courage boxes are typically much larger than the typical turned boxes, probably better called a lidded bowl. They are often 6-7" or more in diameter. The lids need to be easily removed by even very ill children. I made my first two with rather thick bottoms so they didn't tip easily. This picture is of my first one, glued up from cherry with a piece of basswood in the middle for chip carving. I believe I posted a picture of this earlier:
BOC_A_comp.jpg
I think various clubs turned over 700 of these this spring. Our club has just begun a drive to provide more to a local hospital just starting on the BOC program.
JKJ
JKJ
Contributor
Thanks for the tip. I do remember a lidded box I used lacquer where the inside did not want to dry hard. Next time I'll seal it with shellac of use an oil finish.
When working I had more money than time. In retirement I have more time than money. Love the time, miss the money.
Member
The oil in Juniper (Eastern Red Cedar) and others like Rosewood will stall or slow the polymerization of oils like BLO or Tung oil.
Have fun and take care
Member
Nice pot or lidded bowl John, the carving sets it apart, I have made a few larger boxes/lidded bowls/pots, but these all have loose fitting lids, here are a couple.
Box in Applewood.jpg Osage Orange box.jpg Honey Locust box.jpg Applewood box.jpg Applewood box with copper lid.jpg Applewood box open.jpg
Have fun and take care
Moderator
Very nice! Some of these would be perfect for the Beads of Courage project. If you're not familiar with it, the bowls/boxes are for keeping strings of "story" beads for seriously ill children, many of them being treated for cancer. I hope to make at least 10 more this year.
The lids can't be tight so even small and uncoordinated kids can get them on and off easily. After some experimentation, I hit on a good design - taper the rim of the bowl inward and make the lid fit outside the rim, tapering it outward. This way there is a wide clearance when placing the lid on the rim but with the taper the fit is secure, neither too snug nor too loose.
JKJ
Contributor
Brad there are no native true cedars in Missouri/Kansas. Like Leo said, its really a juniper - I remember my 5th grade shop teacher saying that, and it stuck. You can keep the shavings from it to use for the insect-repelling scent in closets, or hamster cages if you know someone with pet rodents. It is surprising that with that striking red/purple/cream color, it is not more popular for woodworking.
Moderator
Eastern red cedar is widely used for woodworking in some areas. I stopped at a roadside shop in the Appalachian mountains which was full, inside and out, with furniture and things made of ERC. A cabinet shop near me does a good business selling porch swings made from ERC - he sells all he can make. I've used it for everything from barn doors to beehive boxes to cabinets. My barn, probably between 80 and 100 years old, has tall ERC trees as structural posts - still in excellent condition. If anyone wants some cedar for turning stop by and visit - I have a stack of logs.
To be clear, according to my reference books the term "true cedar" is reserved for the genus Cedrus, which includes Cedar of Lebanon, Cyprus Cedar, and some others. One reference states "In North America species of the genus Thuja, such as Western Red Cedar, are commonly — though mistakenly — confused with genuine cedar. While some naturalized species of cedar (Cedrus, the true cedars) can be found in the Americas, there are no native species." So yes, there are no native true cedars in Kansas! (Hey, I just remembered, I was born in Kansas.)
If we refer to Eastern Red Cedar (Juniperus virginiana) as a Juniper then I guess we should call Western Red Cedar (Thuja plicata) a Thuja (it sometimes is in the literature). And there are several species of mahogany also called "red cedar". Yikes.
Another confusing regional nomenclature is the common name "poplar": in many areas, such as around here, Poplar always means Tulip/Yellow Poplar (Liriodendron tulipifera). I'm told it means Populus, "true poplar" in other areas. And I read once that there are dozens of species called Ironwood in various places. Common names are a nightmare for wood collectors, specialists, and those of us interested in wood ID. Common names are a boon to wood dealers - they can call a species anything they want for marketing purposes. Just look at "Whitewood" in Home Depot.
JKJ
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