Straight Edge recommendations

[Patrick Walsh]

I won’t mention any names but my tables on my 16” combo have what I call substantial twist in then. Doesn’t matter till you joint a 16” wide board. I’ll leave it to you all to figure out who set it up that way after like 30 attempts to get it right.

The oneway tool is good but imop only combined with a long straight edge for a jointer.

Personally a straight edge oneway and shims are all that’s needed. But I personally like David Bests approach of mounting dial indicators off the end of straight edges the length off both the infeed and outfeed. No double guessing what is what with the above approach you just know..

[Brian Holcombe]

You act like that’s significant

Ok I won’t screw this thread up anymore than it already is.

But in all seriousness what has kept me from splurging on. A sub tool or sterrett 72” edge is it has to get shipped to me. And then I’ll need someplace to check it. I tried calling Sterrett in athol and they do not sell direct.

I have been working with a machine shop local to me “just there this morning” and I’m sure they have a large plate being a 35k sq ft facility with like 6 zillion machines and 40 employees. Place is just unreal actually but that’s another thread.

I see a use for both edge and level. My complaint about the level is they are so sensitive. If “And I do” pair a machine level with my Stabillia levels like four stabillia all working off and with each other making a box around my table and x through the middle I can get the stabillia levels all reading exactly the same. Put the dam machinist level up there and set it match one side. Move it to the other side and the bubble disappears not just moves. It’s enough to make you want buck yourself off a building into moving traffic.

So what does that say about the accuracy of a standard high quality level?

That’s a question and observation not starting a argument.

A machinist level is probsbly best used after leveling with a more typical level. The Mitutoyo last are great for this as they are available in three different levels of precision.

[Patrick Walsh]

That’s what I was suggesting.

Setup a machine with regular levels and shims dual indicators. Then throw the machinist level on it and it makes the prior work look like a child did as it’s so sensitive.

A machinist level is probsbly best used after leveling with a more typical level. The Mitutoyo last are great for this as they are available in three different levels of precision.

[Jerry Bruette]

I've never used a jointer let alone set one up but i'm curious if you could use a piece of piano wire and a couple of pieces of key stock to get every thing inline?

When I worked in the paper industry we would use piano wire and two pieces of key stock to line up the suction boxes on the paper machine.

Process was
1. tie piano wire off on one end of suction section
2. place a piece of key stock,usually 1/4 inch, on top of the first suction box
3. run piano wire to other end of suction section, fifteen or twenty feet away
4. place a piece of the same sized key stock on top of last suction box
5. hang a heavy weight on wire to pull it tight
6. check and adjust all the suction boxes between the first and last using the taught wire as a straight edge

I'm picturing a wire hung over each end of the length of the jointer with a piece of keystock under the wire on each end. Then using a third piece of the same size keystock to check the gap from the table surface to the wire and make the proper adjustments.

The process would be similar to using a string to make sure two sheaves are coplaner.

Any of that gibberish make sense?

[Brian Holcombe]

That’s what I was suggesting.

Setup a machine with regular levels and shims dual indicators. Then throw the machinist level on it and it makes the prior work look like a child did as it’s so sensitive.

I have a 24” carpenters level and I need to lift it about 1/16” to get it to move one deviation, so that’s about .030” per foot. The finest mitutoyo is .00024” per foot. They’re fine enough that holding them in your hand will change the measurement.

Really it’s pretty difficult to do with shims, much easier with screw type adjusters.

[Patrick Walsh]

$500 for a 12” level...

I dint know what I paid for my lamb toolworks level probably close to that.

But man at some point the spending on this stuff just becomes obscene. And that’s coming from a guy that can spend like a champ.

I’m the first person you will hear pitch a fit when a machine has what I would call a fatal defect. But I’ll also be the first person to say I can setup the biggest piece of crap machine “fatal defects” and all and get a very high quality product off it. Is it efficient, no, frustrating as hell yup!

I like perfection as much as any other type A anal retentive weirdo but even my pockets can’t keep up with chasing the machinery perfection thing.

I have now also had the experience of tow brand new fairly high end machines being delivered into the shop. Dropped on the floor plugged in and put to work without checking anything but the work quickly referencing pieces and or just using a caliper or other known flat surface to see what’s up. Both machines produce a perfect result and I suspect all the fancy tools would tell the same. Not one is even close to being leveled just dropped off a pallet jack and to work. Actually three, jointer Martin T54, planner SCM 6 whatever class just bellow L Invincible. I hate Scm and I’d buy this machine to be honest and a SCM uno wide belt. All plug and play.

Point is I partially can’t help but wonder if my money is better spent just financing the best of the best “suffer once” and save the cost of the $7-3000K straight edge and $500 levels and all the frustration and wasted time jerking around with machines.

And no I’m not saying anything bout my old t75 I’m not even finished with or the t23 I’m probably about to purchase. I’m just making a point that the money is nuts and the time has to be considered.


You know if I was selling Moulding machines and double sided planers like Darcy and or four axis cnc mills like I was in a shop full of this morning I could see spending on such expensive tools. But you know even the crap,job you know who did setting up my jointer would only be noticed by a person like your or I Brian as you really have to expect and be looking for machinist perfection when building to even pick up on it. And even then it’s only after a fair amount of use you figure things are not right. The average hobby guy that users his machines intermittently might never even figured it out.

I have a 24” carpenters level and I need to lift it about 1/16” to get it to move one deviation, so that’s about .030” per foot. The finest mitutoyo is .00024” per foot. They’re fine enough that holding them in your hand will change the measurement.

Really it’s pretty difficult to do with shims, much easier with screw type adjusters.

[Darcy Warner]

I have only bought one new dial indicator, all my other set tools have been bought used for maybe 20% new cost.

I have a place fairly local I can drop stuff off at to be calibrated, end up at about 30% new cost.

I have 4 Kennedy machinist boxes full of precision measuring tools that probably cost me 400 bucks total.

I purchase new if I have to have it right away.

Although I am currently awaiting a few Wera Ratchets, a couple stahlwille ratchets and some stuff from Hazet.

I do love my vintage William's, Armstrong and Proto tools as well.

[Darcy Warner]

I've never used a jointer let alone set one up but i'm curious if you could use a piece of piano wire and a couple of pieces of key stock to get every thing inline?

When I worked in the paper industry we would use piano wire and two pieces of key stock to line up the suction boxes on the paper machine.

Process was
1. tie piano wire off on one end of suction section
2. place a piece of key stock,usually 1/4 inch, on top of the first suction box
3. run piano wire to other end of suction section, fifteen or twenty feet away
4. place a piece of the same sized key stock on top of last suction box
5. hang a heavy weight on wire to pull it tight
6. check and adjust all the suction boxes between the first and last using the taught wire as a straight edge

I'm picturing a wire hung over each end of the length of the jointer with a piece of keystock under the wire on each end. Then using a third piece of the same size keystock to check the gap from the table surface to the wire and make the proper adjustments.

The process would be similar to using a string to make sure two sheaves are coplaner.

Any of that gibberish make sense?

I have done this before and it works great on long stuff.

[Patrick Walsh]

Hmm,

Can you tell me what kind of place and or person would do this kind of work. I have had a hard enough time finding machine shops local to me to tend to the few things I need on the Martin. Pretty much any shop around her is a multi million dollar facility 10’s and 10’s and thousands of sq ft and lines of duplicate machines worth as much as my house a piece.

I do desire the knowledge and ability to do the work but between buying the machines then the tools needed to fix the machines or subbing out the work I dont have the machines to produce on my own sadly I end up having to say uncle till I can come up for air again before I risk going broke.

Sorry rant there or rather some perspective. But you know recently I found a couple sweet 72” camelback edges but didn’t teen consider buying them as I wouldn’t even know where to take then to get the hand scrapped and calibrated.

I have only bought one new dial indicator, all my other set tools have been bought used for maybe 20% new cost.

I have a place fairly local I can drop stuff off at to be calibrated, end up at about 30% new cost.

I have 4 Kennedy machinist boxes full of precision measuring tools that probably cost me 400 bucks total.

I purchase new if I have to have it right away.

Although I am currently awaiting a few Wera Ratchets, a couple stahlwille ratchets and some stuff from Hazet.

I do love my vintage William's, Armstrong and Proto tools as well.

[Darcy Warner]

Hmm,

Can you tell me what kind of place and or person would do this kind of work. I have had a hard enough time finding machine shops local to me to tend to the few things I need on the Martin. Pretty much any shop around her is a multi million dollar facility 10’s and 10’s and thousands of sq ft and lines of duplicate machines worth as much as my house a piece.

I do desire the knowledge and ability to do the work but between buying the machines then the tools needed to fix the machines or subbing out the work I dont have the machines to produce on my own sadly I end up having to say uncle till I can come up for air again before I risk going broke.

Sorry rant there or rather some perspective. But you know recently I found a couple sweet 72” camelback edges but didn’t teen consider buying them as I wouldn’t even know where to take then to get the hand scrapped and calibrated.

It's a place that sells measuring tools, they provide a calibration service. There is always a company like that in most locales, they usually come out to bigger shops and pick up/drop off stuff like that. They rebuild indicators, test calipers, out side mics, etc.

I would ask a place like that for a recommendation on grinding/scraping in straight edges.

[Patrick Walsh]

I was figuring I could probably ask the shop that did the EDM work on my hand wheels. But what you say makes sense just as carpenters need a saw blade sharpening service..

I just can’t spent the $700 in a straight edge or a grand for four indicators and mag bases.. I’d like to as I like my crap but I just can’t..

Thanks by the way..

It's a place that sells measuring tools, they provide a calibration service. There is always a company like that in most locales, they usually come out to bigger shops and pick up/drop off stuff like that. They rebuild indicators, test calipers, out side mics, etc.

I would ask a place like that for a recommendation on grinding/scraping in straight edges.

[Dan Jansen]

I’ve got a carpet laying straight edge just like Mark and it’s definitely more than good enough for woodwork. That’s my vote for the sweet spot on price vs accuracy.

[Brian Holcombe]

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[Brian Holcombe]

Make the outfeed height at the cutter first, I use an edge jointed board and gauge how much the board lifts when the cutter is rotated by hand. I want about .001-.002”. Even at the back and front.

Check my level at the cutter head on the outfeed, note my number.

Move it to end of outfeed, adjust to be the same (twist).

Bring indeed level, check with level. This ensures the cut is consistent. Verify with straight edge and feeler gauges.

Move the level to the end of the infeed, remove twist.

Tirn the level 90 degrees, check infeed and outfeed.

This only works if the tables are flat, these tables are pretty dang flat, I could trap a .001” feeler gauge anywhere I checked.

[Brian Holcombe]

I was figuring I could probably ask the shop that did the EDM work on my hand wheels. But what you say makes sense just as carpenters need a saw blade sharpening service..

I just can’t spent the $700 in a straight edge or a grand for four indicators and mag bases.. I’d like to as I like my crap but I just can’t..

Thanks by the way..

I paid $150~ for the mitutoyo levels, they were new old stock, so never touched. The camelback was hand scraped, but the fellow who did it is super reasonable and does very accurate work, I’ve checked it against my plate and one other.

I bought a long straight edge for posterity but careful work with levels makes it unnecessary.