Plantation shutter joinery - biscuits ok?

[Robert Opalko]

Thanks again. It always helps to hear from folks who have done something vs speculation.

I glued up a rough test frame yesterday with double biscuits, no slats. I just took it out of the clamps and it is extremely rigid. I don’t have a homemade test machine to measure force like the woodgears guy so I tested it the same way I test my welds, I bounced it on the concrete driveway . Actually I did it 3 or 4 times trying different angles to hit corners of the frame. The joints did not fail. I am sure if I did it enough I could get the frame to break, but... Yes this is not scientific and I don’t know how having louvers in it would affect the result but it did change my mind about biscuit strength...

Goodness, I'm not sure, but I think I put in 2 evenly spaced. Sorry, I can't definitively say

[Robert Engel]

IMO biscuits are not a substitute for joinery.

In my research on shutters and don't recall them mortised but rather dowelled. Building shutters is production work and mortising adds a lot of unnecessary work.

Dominoes would also bee a good choice. I see no reason why dowels couldn't be drilled all the way through from the sides to simplify the process.

[ChrisA Edwards]

I mentioned earlier doweling as a possibility. I bought the Milescraft 1311 dowel jig.

It is easy to use and very repeatable and accurate.

I would think the dowels would be much stronger joint than the biscuits.

[BOB OLINGER]

Thanks again. It always helps to hear from folks who have done something vs speculation.

I glued up a rough test frame yesterday with double biscuits, no slats. I just took it out of the clamps and it is extremely rigid. I don’t have a homemade test machine to measure force like the woodgears guy so I tested it the same way I test my welds, I bounced it on the concrete driveway . Actually I did it 3 or 4 times trying different angles to hit corners of the frame. The joints did not fail. I am sure if I did it enough I could get the frame to break, but... Yes this is not scientific and I don’t know how having louvers in it would affect the result but it did change my mind about biscuit strength...

Robert, thanks for the info. So, how strong do you need them to be? If I was in your situation, I'd consider "case closed." Wish you well.

[Robert Opalko]

Thanks, I havent seen this one; going to check it out.

[Robert Opalko]

This doesn’t appear to be self centering on a workpiece?

I mentioned earlier doweling as a possibility. I bought the Milescraft 1311 dowel jig.

It is easy to use and very repeatable and accurate.

I would think the dowels would be much stronger joint than the biscuits.

[Robert Opalko]

Thanks, so I am thinking you mean to clamp the frame up in some manner first, then drill all the way through the stiles into the rails? This sounds like I would need to be very precise in drilling at an angle parallel to the stile face..?

IMO biscuits are not a substitute for joinery.

In my research on shutters and don't recall them mortised but rather dowelled. Building shutters is production work and mortising adds a lot of unnecessary work.

Dominoes would also bee a good choice. I see no reason why dowels couldn't be drilled all the way through from the sides to simplify the process.

[Edwin Santos]

Thanks again. It always helps to hear from folks who have done something vs speculation.

I glued up a rough test frame yesterday with double biscuits, no slats. I just took it out of the clamps and it is extremely rigid. I don’t have a homemade test machine to measure force like the woodgears guy so I tested it the same way I test my welds, I bounced it on the concrete driveway . Actually I did it 3 or 4 times trying different angles to hit corners of the frame. The joints did not fail. I am sure if I did it enough I could get the frame to break, but... Yes this is not scientific and I don’t know how having louvers in it would affect the result but it did change my mind about biscuit strength...

Robert, thanks for the info. So, how strong do you need them to be? If I was in your situation, I'd consider "case closed." Wish you well.

I used to count myself among those that sneer at biscuit joinery, and then one day I had to take something apart that had been joined with biscuits and I could not believe how tenaciously they held. I think your driveway bouncing test tells you something about adequacy.

Are biscuits "better" than a mortise and tenon joint? Absolutely not.
Are they good enough to adequately complete your job? Probably yes.

Use the largest biscuit size you can. Double them up if you have the thickness to do so. Biscuits are designed to absorb glue as they decompress, so avoid starving the joint of glue.

I have had trouble with some brands of biscuits being inconsistent in thickness. So now I spend a few extra dollars and stick with the Lamello brand which are always snug.

If you end up going the dowel route, have a look at the Jessem Doweling jig.
Edwin

[Robert Opalko]

I am going to spray mine but the problem is finding an organic vapor respirator right now is, if not impossible, pretty darn close. I am hoping by summer they will be for sale again!

I started making shutters for my house years ago using Norm's plan, and stopped after one window. The painting was too big a challenge for me, as I did not have a sprayer and tried hand painting.

[Nate Secrist]

Hi Robert,

Do you have a pocket-hole (Kreg) jig? I used pocket holes to connect the rails to the stiles. I then plugged the holes and sanded them flush, since I was going to spray white lacquer on them.
The Kreg jig worked very well and it is very strong.

Thanks

Nate

[Robert Opalko]

I do have one, I may try that one set. I avoided asking about that here as I thought pocket-hole joinery was a four letter work on this forum from what I have read! haha
thanks and cheers

Hi Robert,

Do you have a pocket-hole (Kreg) jig? I used pocket holes to connect the rails to the stiles. I then plugged the holes and sanded them flush, since I was going to spray white lacquer on them.
The Kreg jig worked very well and it is very strong.

Thanks

Nate

[Robert Engel]

Thanks, so I am thinking you mean to clamp the frame up in some manner first, then drill all the way through the stiles into the rails? This sounds like I would need to be very precise in drilling at an angle parallel to the stile face..?

yes.

You would still use a jig or you can drill the stiles on the drill press first, assemble and use them as a guide to drill rails.

You can make a squaring jig for the shutters on the assembly table.

[Jim Becker]

If you keep a clear packing tape dispenser available in your shop, it's easy to prevent any staining/sticking relative to your clamps...just put a little tape on the clamp once you figure out where the glue joints will be. That's not limited to pipe clamps, either. My BowClamps have a layer of tape on them and I sometimes use the tape with my parallel clamps, too, depending on what I'm doing.