Kitchen Cabinets

[Bill Fields]

Charlie, and everyone:

I concur with all the above. If you want/need to get really proficient, build shop cabinets, fixtures and jigs. Then graduate to your laundry room and garage.

I especially concur with buying the doors and drawer fronts--more so doors than drawer fronts.

Installing ball-bearing drawer slides can be a pain until you've done a few dozen. (Rocklers jigs are a huge help.)

THis thread is a great example of why I really like this forum. Good advice from pros and amatuers alike.

Good luck--and much patience!

Bill

PS: Also look into one of the guided circular systems for cabinet panels. I like the EZ Guide, but others prefer the Festool.

[Rob Blaustein]

Yet another guy getting ready to build a kitchen. I just get done today with a bathroom vanity and wall unit. The most difficult part for this rookie is finishing, took a long time as I don't have a spray setup. One cabinet took me months as the list of firsts is pretty long. For each first I built something to try it out before going to the vanity. And of course each new task I had to buy something, and I thought I had plenty before I started. Makes staying inside a monthly budget tough. Great practice before starting the kitchen though.

1st raised panel doors on a shaper (scary)
1st try at handcut dovetails (enjoyed the heck out of it)
1st try at router cut dovetails (didn't care for these)
1st try at drawer construction, and hardware.
1st use of euro hinges
1st use of pocket screws
1st use of maple
1st time dyeing anything.

Funny, I'm one step behind you Bob--I hope to tackle some kitchen cabinets in 1-2 yrs, and am in the process of building a bathroom vanity. I am actually doing kind of a dry run, as Tyler suggested, using mostly Birch veneer ply from Home Depot. I just finished putting together 2 of the 3 units (the harder 2). When these are finished and I start on the real thing with the much pricier walnut veneered ply, I will move these cabinets into the shop as I sorely need a set there. I haven't gotten to the drawer parts, or the finishing though.

Charlie, good luck. You are likely more experience than I, but for what it's worth-this has been relatively challenging for me. It took me a while to come up with the design and the exact dimensions. In fact doing the dry run and putting the vanity in place has made me realize that I need to make a few subtle changes dimension-wise. I suspect constructing the actual cabinets will go much more quickly now that I am a lot more comfortable with much of the equipment in my shop. I would echo the suggestion to consider a guided circular saw system to help cutting sheet goods down to size. I used the Festool system and it has been terrific.

[Bill Fields]

Charlie/Rob:

The book--I have bought dozens of WW books, some helpful--the one that helped me most was "The Complete Cabinet Makers Reference" by Jeffrey Pionkowski. I believe available on Amazon, or Popular Woodworking's website--about $25 or so.

IF ONE can follow the instructions here--and they are not always clear--then you will manufacture casework/cabinets like a pro.

Again, great thread!

Thank you SMC!

BILL

[Frank Eppler]

Charlie,
When I did my kitchen, I had the same problem with never having done anything like it before. To see if I could do it I built a few test cabinets and even finished them in different ways. All turned out well with my new kitchen and I have some very nice cabinets in my shop, also. As for the cost, the money I saved allowed me to buys much nicer appliances.

Frank

[Richard Blaine]

If you're going to have face frames, get a pocket hole jig. I was amazed at how much faster my faceframes went together as opposed to a more traditional method like doweling.

[Scott Parks]

IMHO, I'm tired of traditional cabinets with faceframes. Learn the frameless system and use your pocket jig to put togeter the carcases, instead. Much faster, and maybe even easier. I like the look of all the drawers and door fronts in the same plane without gaps between each other. It looks smoother, and less choppy. Do a google for a file called "Blum Process32". This will give you a bit of an idea on getting started with framless construction.

My favorite part of frameless construction is being able to finish your carcass panels before assmebly. Just for a side story, I'm trimming out the ends of my kitchen cabinet runs with real maple (they were fake melamine ie: CHEAP). It was SO MUCH faster to prefinish the whole sheet before cutting/installation.

As far as drawers go... They aren't that time consuming or hard. Again, prefinish sheets of 1/2" baltic birch. Rip off perpendicular peices to the length for all of your drawer sides/fronts. Then, rip those to width. By cutting one peice of ply first to your required length, then all your peices come out to the same length after you rip them to width. This way I don't have to crosscut 4 peices for every drawer. They're already cut to length. I hope this made sense.

Then, set up a 1/4" dado in the table saw, 1/4" deep, and fence 1/4" from blade. Groove every peice for the bottom. Then, run the end of each side trough, 90* to the blade to create a dado to accept the fronts and backs. Last, run the end of each front and back trough vertically (like tenoning), or move the fence up to the blade. Cut your bottoms from prefinished 1/4 BB. If you prefer, you can round over the top edges on the router. Assemble, roll the cut edges with finish with a foam trim roller, and viola, you're drawer boxes are done... EZ...

I've never done an entire kitchen, but for an occasional vanity, built-in, or shop cabinets, this method is easy for me.

[Rob Blaustein]

...I like the look of all the drawers and door fronts in the same plane without gaps between each other. It looks smoother, and less choppy...

...My favorite part of frameless construction is being able to finish your carcass panels before assmebly...

Hi Scott,
I'm confused about these two sentences of yours that I extracted. Isn't eveything also in the same plane with a faceframe and overlay doors and panels. Do you mean that there is a bigger reveal between the elements, and you like the more flush look?

Why can't you finish the carcass panels before you assemble when you do a faceframe design--I was hoping to do that and didn't anticipate any problems.

--Rob

[Larry D. Wagner]

Charlie,

We are just getting done figuring kitchen cabinets for my son's new house that will be being built in about 6 weeks. It's not a real big kitchen, but the maple cabinets that he and his wife have picked out priced out at close to $11,000.00 at the Box stores(HD and Menards). We will be making them for an estimated cost of $4500.00 including all wood materials, very expensive drawer glides and a few quality sets of cutters for the type they have chosen. As has been pointed out, do a practice run on a cabinet or two that you might use in your shop. Please feel free to PM me as I will tell you about the procedures I use when making cabinets.

Larry

[Scott Parks]

Hi Scott,
I'm confused about these two sentences of yours that I extracted. Isn't eveything also in the same plane with a faceframe and overlay doors and panels. Do you mean that there is a bigger reveal between the elements, and you like the more flush look?

Why can't you finish the carcass panels before you assemble when you do a faceframe design--I was hoping to do that and didn't anticipate any problems.

--Rob

Sorry Rob, but I made that clear as mud... 1st, You're right. I stand corrected. You CAN prefinish the carcase materials even with face frames... You can build the same way, just add a frame to the front if you desire. However, if you have a rigid, square back to the carcase, there is no need to use a face frame to square up or stiffen the carcase. I may have been more clear by leaving that statement out. I made an incorrect statement... Busted...

2nd... If you have say 1-1/2" inch face frames, and the doors are only 5/8" inch overlay, then there are TWO front planes. One, the face frame, two is the door/drawer. Look at Jalin's maple cabs in post #14. Now look at Mr. Singer's balboa house cabs... http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...house+cabinets There is little gap between doors/drawers, making the front only one surface... Smooth.... With face frames and the smooth look, you have to make inset doors. More time consuming and fidgiting to get them perfect....

Hope I made more sense this time...

[Jeff Monson]

Charlie, I'll throw in my 2 cents here also, We were bid 8900.00 for maple cabinets from a local custom shop, so I decided to tackle it myself, I'll have 2800 into materials and better quality hardware, hinges and slides, I chose to go with maple also, and I chose to use maply ply for my carcases, I've got the uppers done and have just completed my sink base and still have a few lowers, a pantry and an island left. We chose to do the island and a few accents on the cabinets in cherry to make a contrast in the kitchen, I'm really excited to see the final outcome as my cabinets so far look great.

If you can make the cabinet frames and carcases I cant see why you'd want to buy the doors, I've made my raised panel doors and exposed end panels and they look great. I'll try to post some pics of my progress so far if you'd like.

there are more benefits than one can imagine by doing it yourself, I'll have alot more tools when I'm done and they are basically free for what I've saved, I will come out of this with flooring, appliances and tools for what I would have spent in cabinets alone and in my opinion they look just as good as if not better than the custom shop has to offer.

I bought two books on building your own cabinets and I also purchased a software program called "cabinet cruncher" for a total of 70$ for all three, this has been the best 70$ I've spent so far, the books have taught me the processes I need to know and the software program is awesome, after the setups are done you can have cutlists that are 100% accurate within minutes for a complete kitchen, including carcases, face frames, raised panel doors and half blind dovetail drawers!!!

the only drawback for me so far has been the time to do it as a full time job and 2 kids take up 22 of the 24 available hours in the day, but I'm in no hurry and have over 1/2 my project completed within 2 months, so if I'm done by the middle of summer we will all be happy.

[Rob Blaustein]

2nd... If you have say 1-1/2" inch face frames, and the doors are only 5/8" inch overlay, then there are TWO front planes. One, the face frame, two is the door/drawer. Look at Jalin's maple cabs in post #14. Now look at Mr. Singer's balboa house cabs... http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...house+cabinets There is little gap between doors/drawers, making the front only one surface... Smooth.... With face frames and the smooth look, you have to make inset doors. More time consuming and fidgiting to get them perfect....

Hope I made more sense this time...

OK, now I see what you mean about the look of the face frame plus overlay vs the flush look of frameless. I have another question, but I'll email/PM directly since it might be too specific for this thread.

[Chris Dodge]

Before I went professional I wanted to redo my kitchen so I helped my neighbor, who was remodeling his house, remove his cabinets, which had been build by a custom cabinet maker. I took a look at how his were made and then ripped my kitchen out the next day. I did everything, including electrical and plumbing, except for the gas line and tape and mud. I learned so much from the project and saved myself many thousands of dollars.

Now that I do this work for others I purchase my doors. The doors usually cost just slightly more than the wood itself would have cost and saves me the time and hastle.