SawStop

[Patty Hann]

You know, I've watched an awful lot of YT videos --Stumpy Nubs, Wood Whisperer, Steve Ramsey Spencely(sp?), etc-- dozens of these guys and very few of them (it seems) use the guard.
There is a riving knife/splitter but no guard.

Sometimes they say they remove the guard so that the viewer can see what the person is actually doing with the cut (Like a cut with a tenon jig) but most of the time they are just showing a speeded up cut of wood for what they are making-- the object being made the real reason for the video and not the cut itself as the focus.--- And the guard is not in place.

Now I'll be the first to say:
1) I'm the novice and and really do listen to that little voice, especially when it starts haranguing me
2) those guys are not novices (and quite a few are using SawStops, btw)

So, just wondering what would be the reason for so many of them not using a guard?
What percentage here use riving knives/splitters but not a guard? (meaning, when a guard can be used)

[Richard Coers]

The subject isn't the issue and it's not going to get forbidden because it's relevant to this forum's purpose. The issue is personal behavior. Like many things...a good path to follow is "if you don't like it, don't buy/do it". It's very much ok to have an opinion and express it thoughtfully, but it's not ok to berate someone who feels differently.

Jim
Forum Moderator

It's not relevant any longer Jim. It starts out pro SawStop, then the haters come in and tell people they are incompetent or plain idiots for ever getting hurt in the first place, then the slider people chime in on how to be even safer with a saw that uses up the space of most small shops, and then finally the inventor haters finish up. IT HAPPENS EVERY SINGLE TIME! What part of that is still relevant after the last 15+ years? And yes, I do know it's my fault for reading yet another new Sawstop post

[Joel Gelman]

, then the slider people chime in on how to be even safer with a saw that uses up the space of most small shops,

Oops

[Kris Cook]

Not going to engage in the SS politics but will say after using a table saw for 35 years with and without a guard or splitter having the SawStop has made me more conscious about safety while using the TS in general. I will say part of the consciousness is an apprehension about setting off the brake but generally I dont think that is necessarily a bad thing.

[James Jayko]

I think you're right. They're just out of reach for 99% of people...they take up 4x the footprint of a 36" cabinet saw, and cost 10x as much.

However...have you seen the new Altendorf one with SawStop-like (actually, Bosch Reaxx like) technology? That thing looks amazing, but is $Texas.

[James Jayko]

Interesting. Why did he reach over the blade rather than pull the sled back toward himself?

Like many people, he was being sloppy / lazy / tired doing a lot of repetitive cuts. He was being dumb and 100% acknowledged that it was a STUPID thing to do.

[James Jayko]

Without arguing, a certain percentage of the population has zero business operating any power tools like a saw. When I worked for a large construction company years ago, we had people on our crews that were not allowed to operate any power tools other than a drill for fastening plates. None of the people who were not allowed to use saws even complained. The downside I see is complacency - other saws such as band saws, circular saws etc do not have those type of stops. No valid reason to get injured = always have 100% focus on the job at hand, no reason to put your fingers near any blades. Best of luck to all.

You'll get no arguments from me on this point. I see it in this shared shop all the time...people don't even know they're being stupid.

[James Jayko]

Not going to engage in the SS politics but will say after using a table saw for 35 years with and without a guard or splitter having the SawStop has made me more conscious about safety while using the TS in general. I will say part of the consciousness is an apprehension about setting off the brake but generally I dont think that is necessarily a bad thing.

That has been my experience as well. Part of it was writing the check for the saw..."I'm paying 3x so this thing will not cut my finger off. This is a dangerous piece of equipment, be careful dummy!" But like everything, YMMV.

[Jim Dwight]

I'm way too cheap to not be concerned about tripping the brake on my PCS. I don't want to get hurt but I also do not want to waste a saw blade and have to buy another cartridge. I do not think overconfidence based upon the technology played any role in my accident. I made a bad decision. I did not think through the potential consequences of what I was doing.

I still haven't replaced the dado blade. The few times I've needed a dado joint since I destroyed my blade set I've just used my router or made multiple cuts with my normal sawblade. I have a little base jig that lets it be guided by my tracksaw track and it is a safer way to make the joint involving less setup time. I do not believe my SawStop is incapable of cutting dados, but I think having to swap cartridges PLUS set up the dado set tips the scales towards cutting them another way. At least for me. I'll run into a project that calls for a lot of dados eventually and get another blade set but so far the router is OK.

[Thomas Pender]

Agree. Last thing I want to do, other than being injured, is to pay for a new SS cartridge and expensive blade. Kind of ironic.

[Marc Fenneuff]

It's not relevant any longer Jim. It starts out pro SawStop, then the haters come in and tell people they are incompetent or plain idiots for ever getting hurt in the first place, then the slider people chime in on how to be even safer with a saw that uses up the space of most small shops, and then finally the inventor haters finish up. IT HAPPENS EVERY SINGLE TIME! What part of that is still relevant after the last 15+ years? And yes, I do know it's my fault for reading yet another new Sawstop post

This x1000. Well said.

[Tom M King]

I take exception to this part quoted from the first post: " And most TS injuries seem to happen to people who know what they're doing and get tired/lazy/careless." While I agree with the part about continuing to work past being tired, if they got hurt, they did not "know what they're doing".

I've used table saws for over 50 years. I've never used one with any kind of safety device on it, nor do I know anyone else personally who has. They, nor I, have never come close to being knicked by the saw. Fingers never get close to, close beside, or certainly not over or behind the blade-Never for any reason.

I almost never crosscut on a tablesaw.

I'm not saying I recommend this to anyone else. Just don't do something stupid. Quit when you get tired or are not clear headed for any reason. I have never watched a youtube video of anyone doing woodworking, so can make no comment on what anyone else does or says.

I don't mind the Sawstop technology, but I won't be buying one. If I felt like I needed it, I would quit using a table saw.

[Richard Coers]

I almost cut off the top 3/4" off the end of my middle finger on my left hand in 1984. Sawed 2/3 of the way through the bone and knuckle. Believe me a new blade and cartridge is way cheaper than two surgeries, the pain of 2 recoveries, and a lifetime of not having a knuckle on one finger. At least that finger has stopped being a weather predictor. For a decade it told me every time the barometer dropped, or when the temp went below freezing! I just saw the stainless steel pins they used to toe nail the tip of my finger back on the other day in my desk. Talk about PTSD

[James Jayko]

I take exception to this part quoted from the first post: " And most TS injuries seem to happen to people who know what they're doing and get tired/lazy/careless." While I agree with the part about continuing to work past being tired, if they got hurt, they did not "know what they're doing".

"Individuals injured while using a table saw can be grouped into 3 broad categories. The first two are occupational and non-occupational injuries, both of which are overwhelmingly male. The percentage of injuries sustained at work ranges from 31% to 46%."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4154236/

Maybe 'most' is a misstatement. But between 1/3 and nearly half of table saw accidents happen to professionals on the job. Perhaps they don't have the expertise or luck that you have, but its hard to say that all of the professionals who use a table saw at work and have an accident are unaware of the dangers and proper techniques to avoid injury.

[Michael Burnside]

It's not relevant any longer Jim. It starts out pro SawStop, then the haters come in and tell people they are incompetent or plain idiots for ever getting hurt in the first place, then the slider people chime in on how to be even safer with a saw that uses up the space of most small shops, and then finally the inventor haters finish up. IT HAPPENS EVERY SINGLE TIME! What part of that is still relevant after the last 15+ years? And yes, I do know it's my fault for reading yet another new Sawstop post

I personally like these stories. I like to understand how an injury could have been prevented just before the SawStop technology kicked in. Personally I've read of a couple of stories like this that made me think, hmm, perhaps the tablesaw is not the proper tool for this task if that could happen. Or, have I done that before and could that have been me? What could be done to make it safer?

I ignore the politics. People that suggest qualified/experts don't get hurt are the idiots, not the rest of us that do when an accident happens. For the crowd that suggests folks that chose not to buy or can't afford the tech feel like they don't value their safety. They're no better.