The OP is not asking if he can sharpen with a bench grinder. He has and will get old chisels that will likely need their primary bevel restablished. The grinder is as good as any other method, and certainly faster than a Tormek.
Contributor
The OP is not asking if he can sharpen with a bench grinder. He has and will get old chisels that will likely need their primary bevel restablished. The grinder is as good as any other method, and certainly faster than a Tormek.
Contributor
Grinder in the Dungeon shop..sees a lot more than just sharpening..
Grinder, The Grinder .JPG
Name plate?
Grinder, Name plate .JPG
For most of the sharpening going on...there is this...and a big glass of water...
Grinder, sanding center .JPG
There IS a second, older grinder, set up for doing the "Unicorn" ....
Just how this shop works..others? Meh...
A Planer? I'm the Planer, and this is what I use
Member
I'd say pretty essential...and not even so much for restoring old chisels, but for routine maintenance in refreshing primary bevels to reduce the size of the secondary bevel you have to hone. You'll find other uses for it, too, no doubt.
You can overcome the lack of one in several ways, however. If you have a belt sander of some kind, you can probably rig up a way to grind on it. Derek Cohen had a writeup on modifying a stationary belt sander to grind bevels- it may still be up on his site. I adapted his idea to my 1x42 belt grinder and that's what I use. I wouldn't suggest buying a belt sander for this purpose if you don't have one, although I think my setup works pretty well. Make sure to use a fresh coarse grit belt (less than 100 grit) to avoid overheating.
You can also grind them by hand. The best way would be on a long sandpaper lap. Get a roll of 80 grit PSA paper and a long (say 2 ft long or more) strip of plywood or something- doesn't need to be perfectly flat for bevel work. Chuck the chisel in a cheap eclipse style guide and go to town. If the paper is fresh you will be surprised how quickly you can remove material. If you aren't trying to make a drastic change to the bevel angle, then this should go very quickly. If you don't want to fool with sandpaper, a coarse Crystolon stone is about the fastest stone I know of.
Contributor
A grinder is invaluable for me. It takes less than 5 minutes of honing after establishing a perfect bevel on the grinder.
Member
I have a 6" grinder, and eventually put a white Norton stone on it. Now that my acquisition phase is largely complete, and I am pretty well over the idea of restoring old tools to save money, I am keeping my grinder for refreshing primary bevels on my edge tools as I use them. As one recent poster mentioned, refreshing the primary bevel to save time sharpening the secondary bevel. Keeper tool.
In the acquisition phase my second most common use for the grinder was a wire wheel brush on the other end of the grinder for rust removal.
I regret not saving up a few more sheckles to first acquire an 8 inch grinder, but at this point upgrading my grinder would not materially affect the quality of my finished work, nor would an 8 inch grinder let material move through my shop faster to become finished product sooner.
One thing to do with intention is get a basket case old chisel to the grinder and overheat it on the grinder so you can get a feel for how long that takes, and then grind away the burnt area -also on the grinder- so you have a reference point for how long that takes. Rather than see how fast I can grind primary bevels without burning, my approach is to instead re-establish a primary bevel on my grinder slowly enough that I don't have to worry about burning the steel. Still faster than by hand, by a LOT.
Member
Most of the time on the stones. But for grinding I would use a bench grinder. Belt sander is doable but does not produce a concave bevel. You could free hand a few times with free hand on a concave bevel edge. If there is a chip edge then use a bench grinder.
Friend of the Creek
Sharpening is a science in debate.
Old school was a couple of stones on a grinding wheel and either a finishing flat stone and strop. That creates a hollow grind which is easier to maintain with a series of flat stones and a strop. But a grinder can be fussy and inaccurate. A Rikon slow speed grinder upgraded with a Veritas tool rest and jig are great improvements. You can get well over $1,000 in grinders, stones, finishing stones and strops.
A more Neanderthal method (Paul Sellers) uses a series of flat stones which work fairly well, except for tools with nicks. He finishes off the process with a strop. His video on sharpening is priceless. He sharpens tools with stones for under $100.
In the 1980s, someone figured out that sandpaper on a glass was cheap and easy, so enter the world of glass plates and sand paper, with or without a jig to hold the tool. Works well for sharpening, but doesn't work well for fixing nicked blades, as it uses a lot of sandpaper. As one poster suggested a belt sander works very well, and assuming you're good at setting the bevel, works well for the whole process, coarse to fine, but you'll still need a fine stone and a strop. You can pick up a used 4x36 belt sander on Craigslist for under $200 and some have tool rests and you may be able to make a jig for the angle on your tool.
Either method will result in a sharp tool. I don't think either is better than another, although I tend to use my Rikon method more than any.
Regards,
Tom
Contributor
Scott, may I ask why are you regretting not getting an 8" grinder? What about the 6" diameter is less than ideal?Originally Posted by Scott Winners
Member
A grinder is not essential for sharpening chisels. A grinder is not essential for sharpening turning tools.
When restoring old chisels to a serviceable condition, working the bevel is not what takes a lot of work. Getting the back in good condition is what takes time, and a grinder is only marginal help here. And the truth is that given the decades of service a good chisel provides, the time spent bringing the tool into service is trivial when the total life of the chisel is considered.
If you are buying used chisels, I would concentrate on buying intermediate sizes like 5/16 or 7/16. Having multiples of sizes like 1" or 3/4" doesn't do much good unless you are really upgrading or enjoy comparing different brands.
Contributor
I mostly agree with Warren's post.
It is convenient to have multiples of one's most used sizes. This allows one to keep going instead of stopping. If one chisel needs the edge refreshed it can be set aside and another picked up to continue the work at hand.
There are four or five sets of chisels in my kit:
1) A set of paring chisels, these are long bevel edged chisels and have short lands.
2) A set of heavier bevel edged chisels, these are for light mallet work.
3) A set of flat sided chisels for use with a mallet.
4) A set of mortise chisels for going deep.
5) A set of butt chisels are handy for working in close.
When working on larger projects my 3/4" and larger chisels are often the ones doing the work.
Here is a 1-1/2" bevel edge chisel paring a cheek for a lap joint:
Union Cheek Trimming.jpg
Here it is paring on a leg for a sawhorse.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Contributor
Unless a edge has chipped, I rarely ever use the grinder...unless it has the cloth buffing wheel on it.
One other needful item along with a grinder...is a cup of water....when the steel is too warm for a finger..dunk the steel into the cup of water....
Old timers( way before Warren was born) would have a tin can set above the wheel, that one could set to drip onto the wheel, plus you could start out with a "handful" right out of the cup...a BIG improvement came along...when they added a seat, and a couple pedals to turn the wheel...( one for sale about 3 blocks from where I am sitting..)
A Planer? I'm the Planer, and this is what I use
Contributor
I use a grinder much of the time when preparing chisels and plane blades for sharpening. I do not use a grinder for Japanese laminated blades, where the hard cutting layer is thin and the soft thicker backing is easily abraded.
The grinder creates a hollow, reducing the steel area to be honed. This is the same basis for Japanese planes, where the soles are hollowed to improved coplanar and reduce friction. In the case of blades, especially steel which is hard and abrasion-resistant, there is significant benefit in reducing the steel area in regard to speed and effort.
There are other ways to do this, such as honing a secondary bevel, which may be done freehand or with a honing guide. I prefer to freehand on the hollow, which is self-jigging.
Hollow grinding does not wear out blades faster. The steel is removed from the centre of the primary bevel, not the ends. I do not see my blades becoming shorter any faster than someone who only work the face of the bevel.
I grind up to the edge of the blade. This does not affect its hardness unless one is heavy-handed or clumsy. Using CBN wheels helps tremendously to reduce heat in the grind. Grinding is less frequent than one realises at this point since the hollow lasts a long time with an 8” wheel.
Edit to add: Sharpening the thin Stanley blades made with plain carbon steel, available for a 100 or more years, is a different story to the modern thick steels of today, which are made of harder and more abrasion-resistant compounds. Basically, what one is doing with hollow grinding, is “tricking” these thick blades into acting like thin blades.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Last edited by Derek Cohen; 04-02-2023 at 7:44 PM.
Member
A grinder is not essential for turning???? Well, if you don't do much turning, then that may be true, but as a production turner for 25+ years, it is essential to me.
robo hippy
Contributor
I do not do a lot of turning, but do find a powered system, if not essential, is a real time saver. Turning is much tougher on a tool than hand work.
Consider if one is working on a 2" cylinder turning at 200 rpm a tool touching that surface is engaging with ~100' of wood per minute.
Work in Progress.jpg
This piece of ash (a work in progress) is maybe 3" (five or six inches overall) and my skew needed its edge refreshed. A few seconds on my powered sharpener sure beats a few minutes or more on my stones.
jtk
Last edited by Jim Koepke; 04-02-2023 at 2:09 PM. Reason: added image
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Member
I do a different style of turning. I use very sharp tools and was able to stop sanding in 1978.
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