GF Hi Performance Brush/Foam pad tips?

[Kent A Bathurst]

I'm not impressed with my finishing skills in using GF waterborne. Have used Hi-Perf, not Enduro, but this is an operator issue, not an equipment issue. I was bang-on with brushing oil-based a la W'Lox, etc, but those days were left behind when I retreated to a condo - can't deal with the odor/solvents.

I've used extender as far as specs allow, and water thinning as far as specs allow, but I still have "brush marks", whether by actual brushes or foam "brushes", and I've not been able to apply without them being left behind. Except to go to full cure and "rub out" with Micro Mesh.

This drives me nuts. Am I expecting too much? I'm not even sure that, when all is said and done, anyone other than me notices them on the finished/cured product.

But still - can I get there? Am I missing something? Over-driving my headlights?

[Edward Weber]

What type of brush are you using? Synthetic bristles usually work well for WB finishes
Whats the temp/humidity where you're applying the finish? If it's too hot or too dry, you can loose your wet edge and it can begin setting too quickly, leaving brush marks

[Kent A Bathurst]

Good points - I have some pretty good syn bristles, but have mainly been trying the foam brushes - that's what their video shows, and I remember from years back getting that vibe from elders here.

Atlanta - inside - keep temp mid-70's and humidity about 50.

[John TenEyck]

It's a little like shellac, Kent. You have to flow it on wet enough for it to flow out, and not work it too much. I'd keep the Extender but no thinning.

John

[Andrew Hughes]

I use the Wooster foam king for Generals water based finish. Those cheap ones don’t hold enough finish. It not very difficult to master the foam king. And it holds a lot of finish. I think I’ve gone about 40 inches long on a pass.
Holding the angle of the brush consistent and mixing the can without adding a bunch of bubbles is the key. Bubbles can be popped with a lighter just like epoxy pours.
After my last project with Generals water based urethane I think I stick Rubio mono coat.
Here a pic of the foam brush.

[Kent A Bathurst]

John & Andrew - thanks. A couple of long-dark lightbulbs just clicked on.

In my former home, where I had direct ventilation access to the outside, the oil-based stuff was my thing. I had that nailed. Very high-quality brushes. Apply and tip-off. And also after final coat, one last scuff sand and a thin wipe-on coat, so nibs and bubbles had no chance.

The oil vapors and solvents and cleanup and such just don't work here in the condo room intended to be the MBR. So waterborne. Plus - of late I've been focusing on terrific curly maple and curly cherry, and I want water-clear. GF H-P fits that bill

There is nothing about my prior regimen that applies to the waterborne stuff, except maybe the high-quality brushes, and I screwed that up as well. I had no clue about foam brush products. The $3/dozen ain't the right dog for this fight. The Wooster are on their way.

And I was trying to force my oil-based skills onto the waterborne platform. Nope - problems compound by trying to get thinner, eh? "Go with the flow" as it were. I have only the residual of a pint left, so I'll get a new one and extend, but leave out the water.


Cool beans, guys. Won't be until the end of the week for me get all tooled up for a test drive on sample panel.

And - Andrew - "Bubbles can be popped with a lighter" - I'd never heard of this before. Too cool - bring fire to the game. Ima get tooled up for that also. Do I need a small butane torch, or maybe just one of those long-handled charcoal grille lighters?

Thanks a lot. I'm geeked.

[Christian Hawkshaw]

I use the Wooster foam king for Generals water based finish. Those cheap ones don’t hold enough finish. It not very difficult to master the foam king. And it holds a lot of finish. I think I’ve gone about 40 inches long on a pass.
Holding the angle of the brush consistent and mixing the can without adding a bunch of bubbles is the key. Bubbles can be popped with a lighter just like epoxy pours.
After my last project with Generals water based urethane I think I stick Rubio mono coat.
Here a pic of the foam brush.

I also use the Wooster Foam King with GF High Performance. Don't over brush it.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I also use the Wooster Foam King with GF High Performance. Don't over brush it.

Gotcha. Thanks for pitching in, Christian.

Any particular source for the Wooster Foam King? I had a bit of trouble - had to go with Home Depot shipped to home [free shipping]

Amazon - they had only 3"; others at stupid prices. I'm fine with 3", but right now I have some trial panels I want to test drive so went with a couple 2" and 1-1/2"

Places to look?

[Jim Becker]

The comparison with shellac earlier in the replies is kinda spot on. Waterborne finishes start to dry pretty quickly so you have to develop a technique that's less about "working" the finish as you would with oil based products if you intend to brush or pad them. They are a little more forgiving than shellac not not by a big amount. 'Nature of the beast.

I'm not a fan of foam "brushes" for serious work, honestly. A good Chinex brush is my preference for waterborne paints and clears if I have to use a brush.

[Christian Hawkshaw]

Gotcha. Thanks for pitching in, Christian.

Any particular source for the Wooster Foam King? I had a bit of trouble - had to go with Home Depot shipped to home [free shipping]

Amazon - they had only 3"; others at stupid prices. I'm fine with 3", but right now I have some trial panels I want to test drive so went with a couple 2" and 1-1/2"

Places to look?

At one point I used amazon, but after the they also started having "stupid prices" I have purchased from Home Depot...I usually buy a few extra to have some on hand as I use the brushes for oil based poly as well.

[Kent A Bathurst]

At one point I used amazon, but after the they also started having "stupid prices" I have purchased from Home Depot...I usually buy a few extra to have some on hand as I use the brushes for oil based poly as well.

Thanks - didn't want to be missing something.

After I take a test drive to evaluate my competence, I'll do what I usually do - tool up. I long ago got bored with starting to do something and then realizing I was out of dweebles, so I resupply when I use the next-to-last dweeble.

[Christian Hawkshaw]

Here are some examples using the Foam King brush. While I usually spray GF High Performance via HVLP sprayer these days, I am currently working on a project with three small drawers. It was not worth it to hook up the sprayer and clean up the mess, so I just brushed the drawer boxes. Two coats of flat for all surfaces except the front. The fronts have oil-based poly brush on.


white oak drawer.jpg

Here is a maple drawer box with satin finish from many years ago:

maple drawer.jpg

Here is one of the drawer fronts of the current project with oil-based poly in a matte finish:

oil based poly.jpg


One last tip is that I will try to only to apply the finish when the surface is horizontal. This helps eliminate the need to brush out drips. That is easy to do with drawer boxes as you can easily rotate the box. Depending on the project, I will pre-finish before assembly, or just rotate the piece to apply when the surface is horizontal.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Sold on the process - finish looks great - if I can avoid unintended bozonics, I've got a shot.

Love the QSWO. 80% of what I've made over the years is QSWO. Especially in darker tones like yours.

Show the finished product sometime, somewhere, eh?

[Mike Soaper]

It's been awhile but for waterbased clears I've had better luck with a soft Purdy Syntox nylon+chinex than i've had with foam brushes. If I get another brush I might try an all nylon Nylox. ymmv

Purdy® Syntox™ Flat™ Trim Brushes | Purdy

Purdy® Nylox™ Swan™ Wall Brushes | Purdy

[Kent A Bathurst]

OK, sports fans -

Wooster Foam King; GF Hi-Perf Gloss; no water, 10% extender; full load on the brush; moderate, smooth pace so the brush can unload

20" x 20" curly cherry table top [the back side]

Nowhere near the "terrible" of my previous efforts. Need more practice [2d coat this table top back, plus a couple coats on the back of its twin], but I'm confident I have it in-range.

We have a winner. Very kind of you to get me squared away.

Kent