Kitchen cabinets for small cabin

[Maurice Mcmurry]

If you are lucky you might find something hand made at the re-store. I took a client to Menards yesterday to pick out the items for her bathroom remodel. I managed to convince her to keep her old brown vanity with the promise that I would paint it if the end result did not please her. The vanity was made by a colleague of my Dads in 1969. The Makers sons are still producing cabinets.

Foley Custom Cabinets | Since 1968, building quality custom cabinets for mid-Missouri homes.

[Dave Sabo]

Maybe we misunderstand each other. Are you familiar with the type of cabs I'm describing?

I absolutely know what you're describing. It was ubiquitous in low cost housing thorought GA/FL/SC middle of last century.

A FF carcass can be as long as the lumber. 8 feet, 12 feet, 24 feet, no problem because the FF provides structural support that is lacking in frameless. So carcasses aren't just carcasses.

Yes, they are.........
If you can get FF material that is straight (and stays that way) over 8ft. long, you've got one heck of source. Have to call BS on your ability to get it in 12 & 24ft. lengths though. Also, framless cabinets don't lack support, their support is just in a different place than a framed cabinet ! I've done framelss projects 30+ years ago (with 5/8" sides no less ) that have had stone or concrete tops up to 2-1/2in. thick on them. They are still in place and are doing just fine.

And contrary to most American's belief - framed cabinets ARE NOT somehow inherently stronger than frameless. There are crap framed kitchens out there just like there are great ones. Same applies to frameless. So, carcasses are just carcasses for this discussion. They are an element to hold doors and drawers and ultimately kitchen suoolies /tools.

Building a bunch of little boxes to screw together as is done with frameless wouldn't make sense because the FF isn't needed for structural support in a small box and it is extra lumber and effort to build.

Well, this is a whole different (mostly theoretical) discussion. Especially on a one off project. And while one method may not make sense to you - to someone else it's clear as day. You feel an xtra couple of 5/8 or 3/4" sides of sheet goods is xtra lumber (a waste) while Mr. Faceframe thinks the hardwood lumber you bought for the frames is extra lumber. WHo's correct ??? Tough to say. Could be both, or neither. You also think extra effor is required to build frameless and I simply do not agree with this point. Nor do many operation guys. Frameless is a VERY EFFICIENT method of construction from both a labor AND materials standpoint. To do it well requires a bit more tooling whih may be a drawback/hurdle - but that's something much different than effort.

The carpenter style FF cab has 8' of unobstructed shelf width.

Well, sort of but not really . Again - I challenge you to find (show me) a frame that's 8ft. long and has no stiles. Which means your "run" ain't 8ft. interrupted. It's the same 2-3ft. of usable/accessible shelf space that a frameless run has. And when the frameless customer opens his door he' got a clear shot to the entire cabinet while mr. framed has lip to jump on the bottom shelf and the a jog left and right to deal with to clear the stiles. Which means THE USABLE space of a frameless is way more functional than any few sq. inches of extra space a framed cabinet may afford.

Then there's the real issue you seem to be ignoring (or haven't considered) which is shelf adjustability. Those built in place cabs traditionally were fixed shelf affairs and that's fine if it meets your needs. It doesn't for most people.
When you add that feature to your elevation -or- narrow your shelving to standard sizes to match other items like 24" dishwashers, 30" ranges, ect...ect.... - your theoretical material savings and less effort just went up in smoke.

And you still get to deal with the lippage the frames !

Did I say they would be built from expensive hardwood? All the traditional built-in FF cabs I've seen are either pine, painted poplar, or an inexpensive hardwood (4/4 ash is currently less expensive than 1/4" plywood).

No, but you did say (erronously in my market anyway) that plywood was expensive. And maybe it is, but so is solid timber by that same non quantitative back of the napkin opining.

Clearly you want to build the cabinets with that old skool method, which is fine............but don't get your nose outa joint becuase few if any people agree with your assumptions about that style of construction. Untill you have a specific design / layout / set of specifications and run a material takeoff ; any "it's cheaper" or "less labor" talk is just a W.A.G.

If you like that style , great - go do it. Why do you need complete strangers to validate your choice ? Why do you care if your asumptions are correct or not ?


p.s. that architect was just humoring you because none that are worth a darn would put their name on an 8ft. long single run anyway - even if it made ergonomic sense. Which , I cannot see being remotely possible given the size and scope of the project you first described. And while his interest may have been piqued by your new (old) method of building, he certainly had no cluue as to the manufacturing costs or time of either method.

p.s.s - I've worked on projects with many nationally renound architects all across the country and have yet to meet one that knew 1/4 about good kitchen design let alone manufacturing than a seasond CKD ! So don't hang your hat that one interaction.

[Ron Citerone]

I built cabinets for my small cottage. Sink bace, drawer base, small base, 2 uppers for dishes. Carcass out of 3/4 baltic ply, face frames/ drawer fronts/doors out of hickory. Not too expensive materials but nice finished look. Not sure how many cabinets you need. Might be helpful to know number and sizes.